school trips

[Spinkle]

Grrr.

Have just collected DS (6, ASD) from school and his teacher told me that the class would be going down to London for the day at the end of the month. It is roughly a 3hr trip each way. It is a reception and year 1 class (utter madness !). They will not be home till 7pm.

Anyhow - it has been put to me that 'he will not handle it' and they presumably want me to keep him at home.

I asked the purpose of the trip. Look at buildings, apparently. Part of the topic.

So, are they allowed to exclude my son? If it's such as essential visit and part of the curriculum should they not be busting a gut to include him?

Now: I have a few options

1. keep him at home.
   
2. go as a 'helper' I think they deliberately chose one of my work days to make sure I couldn't (however, I can juggle my hours around a bit; but they don't know that) I don't think they want me to go because I am a teacher i.e I know what should be done (and I don't think they do it!)
   
3. take my DS on the train and meet up with them.
   

The prospect of taking my DS to London does not fill me with joy - but why the heck should he miss out? he couldn't be part of the school play, he missed the xmas party...

I don't think he should be excluded. I also dislike the way it was put to me.

[Spinkle]

Thanks - I thought it was something like that. (I should know, really, given my job and all)

AIBU though?

I think it's out of order and my school always plans trips round the kids capabilities. And we certainly wouldn't be keeping 5 yr olds out until 7pm.

[Spinkle]

I would also add he is statemented with a fulltime 1-1

[auntevil]

Personally i think the school is being unreasonable in taking a year 1 and reception class for a 3 hour journey to such a sensory overloading place anyway. In theory there could be children in reception as young as 4.5. That's a heck of a day for a NT child.
If it is so much part of the curriculum that they are studying, then i would insist he has 1-1 and is included. I would find it surprising at that age that they could not have found somewhere nearer that had ample curriculum opportunities.

[Spinkle]

Well, quite.

This school has 40 kids in total and is in a village that doesn't even have a shop....

Am tempted to persuade DH to have a day off and we'll take him down with us.

[5inthebed]

I wouldn't want DS2 to do a trip like that, he is 5 an just wouldn't cope with it!

He has been on a few all day trips though, never excluded, and his 1:1 has always gone with him. She is great and at the first sign of overload has taken him somewhere quieter, usually for a drink and a cake.

School can't exclude him from the trip.

[shaz298]

Any reason why it needs to be London? Surely living in a tiny village, the nearest big town would give oportunity to look at different styles of building???

I don't think any 5 year old would manage a trip like that!! They are mad!

Grrr on your behalf. x

[bigcar]

dd3s school tried this, it was so they could use her 1:1 to look after a group of other children so they could take fewer parents.

whether you want him to go or not is something else!

[Spinkle]

No, we don't want him to go, but we'd like to decide that not them. Of course they'll 'risk assess' him out of the trip if we push it.

Problem is though, they cannot put him in another class for the day as no one is in school except the school secretary.

So, I have to pay my childminder to have him for a whole day because they decided to go all the bloody way to London to 'look at buildings'. I think I may be billing them!! Why should I have to pay?



oh, sod it, TOSSERS.

I feel better now.

[TheArsenicCupCake]

What reasonable adjustments have the school looked into ? And can ( would they be able to) justify their position on it?

[mariamagdalena]

Of course he shouldn't go.
Of course none of them should blinking well go.
Are the school insane? They'll lose at least one.

Could he stay in school with his 1-1 and an expensive supply teacher [evil grin emoticon]

Joking aside, surely lots of the parents have concerns.

[asdx2]

They can't exclude because of the Disability Discrimination Act so you could force their hand and either he would be enabled to go by the school providing enough support to keep him safe or the trip would have to be cancelled.
For that trip I wouldn't want my ds to go but I can tell you what I did when school asked me to keep ds at home just in case you are ever in a similar situation and want ds to be included.
Ds's LSA was unable to take him on a trip because she had an interview, the other LSA was scared of ds (he was 7 FGS) and wouldn't agree to be his 1 to 1. The class teacher was driving the minibus and so there wasn't enough space to get 2 LSA's to chaperone ds so they asked me to keep him home. I refused, quoted the DDA and told them that IPSEA had advised that they'd have the LEA in court if the trip went ahead without ds.
It caused sheer panic LEA provided a stand in head to free up the head to lead the trip, classteacher was assigned as ds's 1 to 1 and LEA funded a full size coach and driver so there were enough seats to give ds space.
It was all pointless though because on the day ds refused to get on the coach

[Spinkle]

Thanks for that asdx2. I appreciate the info. I expect ds' 1-1 will go on the trip...
I will see the head tomorrow and tell I'm extremely cross they took such a cavalier assumption that we would keep him off. I shall say I have been more than reasonable in the past but I shall now be drawing the line. I shall INSIST that he has to join every blinking thing from now on.

But I am most perplexed they are dragging the kids such a long way. Sheer madness.

[cansu]

I would be very pissed off if this was put to me. Agree with everyone, it is a totally mad trip anyway. I think it is totally unreasonable to expect you to keep your ds at home or pay for childcare. I am also a teacher and see this kind of thing happening quite frequently where I work. I think schools get away with it because we as parents of children with SEN are made to feel so bloody grateful that they try to accommodate out children. I am fed up of being grateful and apologetic for my dc's. Thus far dd2 has been very well catered for by her new school...

[asdx2]

we as parents of children with SEN are made to feel so bloody grateful that they try to accommodate out children.
That must be why I'm considered a PITA then because I don't show gratitude just demand that ds and dd's needs are met and by god do I complain if they ever fall short

[tibni]

I always found asking for schools intention regarding trips to be put in writing helped focus school. If school feel he can not be included I would insist on school making it an official exclusion with all relevant paperwork and ask for the name of the inclusion officer of the LEA.

My ds (ASD) had huge issues with mainstream school finding him too much trouble, even with his fulltime 1-1, before he went into special school. Good luck.

[wendihouse22]

How ridiculous to take those little kids ALL THAT WAY to look at buildings. Don't know where you are but surely, they could have found a city close by with examples of architecture for them to study!! At age 4 and 5!!

Doesn't sound even like an appropriate subject for such weeny ones..........they's be tired, over excited and.....bored I imagine.

Poor things.

Legally though, they can't say "he should not attend" and if you decided he ought not to go, he should have a 1:1 provision day AT SCHOOL. That's what we do when my son chooses (himself) not to go on the residential trips (he's ten).

[Spinkle]

Problem is, the whole school (all 40 of them) are going.

So, saw the Head. What a wankard. He said 'we could take him then'. Don't be daft I said, you know he can't handle that. I said then that they were forcing my hand into pulling him out that day because of their lack of planning for him and his needs. I said on this occasion we'd would arrange something alternative for him but next time we fully expect that he WILL be included.

I also told him, that if he was unaware, that autism is considered a disability. And that 'you don't want me to start mentioning the Disability Discrimination Act, do you?'

He went a bit pale at that point. And I departed
Can't believe the Head (and he is the SENCO0 didn't know ASD is considered a disability.

Jesus wept

[TheArsenicCupCake]

nicely handled I think Spinkle... the reaction got me when I recently had to mention DDA to ds2's school. pale is very much the word!

[JandyMac]

The Disability Discrimination Act has been superceded by the Equality Act 2010.
There is probably information on the IPSEA website.

[JandyMac]

Oops. No IPSEA don't seem to have it.
Google Disability Discrimination Act and it will give you updated info. I don't think it changes much, but it is worth being up to date.

[wendihouse22]

Ah, if the whole school is going, then yes, you'll need to make alternative arrangements........THIS TIME, AND THIS TIME ONLY.

[SE13Mummy]

Given that you've already had the conversation with the Head and have 'agreed' to keep your DS at home it would be a good idea to follow this up with a formal letter to the Head and Chair of Governors reiterating your position.

State that you were disappointed by the apparent exclusion of a child with a statement of SEN, a child for whom the DDA/Equality Act legislation applies and that you trust that his absence from school on the day of the trip will be recorded as 'educated off-site' (rather than unauthorised, or even authorised absence - you don't want that being thrown back in your face).

Request that the letter be kept on file, for discussion at your DS's annual review...

[Spinkle]

Thank you for that - will do.

I think the Head will remember our conversation. Normally I send in my ever genial DH to speak to him (DH is a school governor there) but her got the Rottweiler this time....

[Spinkle]

OK so now they've changed their minds. His teacher says 'oh, he can come, you know'. Funny that 48 hours earlier it was her that said 'he won't cope'.

Of course he won't cope. But I think they now know they have to say he can come. It would be interesting to see what would happen if I called their bluff and agreed to it...

In all honesty, I'm a straightforward person and I haven't the time or energy to fart about playing games like that.

She also said that there may be other children in school who do not go i.e whose parents decide an 11 hour trip to London to 'look at buildings' is unnecessary. And expensive at £15.

Oh well. She also asked me to 'pop in' today to talk about his IEP targets. He's been there for 2 years now but all of a sudden they're fussing about that... hmm I wonder if it could be linked to me kicking off? I said 'no' I couldn't. Today was my first free day since November and I wanted to do something for me.

Selfish cow that I am..