School admissions form due by jan but won't have a statement for months and months any advice?

[used2bthin]

Our local school is in special measures, people are moving to avoid it. My DD has a two year s and l delay and a serious medical condition. I spoke to a parent advisor yesterday and she strongly advised against this school but also wasnt keen on the one I had had my heart set on which is a school in a village- she said its a nice school in a nice vilage but she has had parents with children with SN come to her with massive probems with it.

Anyway I have our inclusion worker coming friday and she wants to talk about school, whether we apply for a statement, that kind of thing. I think we will as DDmeets the criteria according to our SALT and the advisor but obviously its a long process and won't help me with schools yet. We will be moving in january/feb but probably not in time for applying to schools and I am worried about DDgoing through as a late application wherever we end up. Or would a statement over ride that even after the close date?She won't be starting school till next sept so hoping the statement will be through before that?

[Lougle]

She would override it. Having said that, the SEN CoP isn't terribly clear. It says that they have to take your preference unless there is good reason not to, but one of those reasons is 'incompatible with the efficient education of other children at the school'.

If your DD is going to be Year R, her admission will fall in the Infant Class-size Regulations, prohibiting more than 30 children in a KS1 class.

Technically, if the LA admit her to your chosen school after the 30 places per class are allocated, she will be classed as an 'excepted pupil' for that year. i.e. she will be allowed to be pupil 31 until Year 1 without another teacher. But in Year 1, they would need to make sure that they kept to Regs, and that could mean employing another teacher, or splitting year groups into Year R/1 mix, etc.

All schools HAVE to admit any statemented child where the school is named in Part 4 of the statement, which leads people to think that they are home and dry, but they sometimes forget that it is the LA who have the final say on which school is named in Part 4.

What you would need to do is express a preference for that school in each and every document you send, even the initial letter requesting SA, so that you are flagging your DD. Hopefully, they would then count your DD in the numbers, although it does get tricky with application cycles and deadlines.

Regardless, you will have the right to appeal to the First Tier Tribunal (Special Educational Needs and Disability) [formerly SENDIST] if they name a school which is different to your preference, but then you'd have to show that your DD's needs override the Infant Class Size Regulations which is very hard to do.

The other approach is a standard appeal against the school place, but again, to win you would have to show that the LA was grossly irrational in its decision making.

[SantasMooningArse]

We ahd similar to what lougle says; ds3 was admitted but the class was overfull- except they dealt with it by pretending he was on another class register (didnt actually ant him in that class due to another statemented child already there and logistics of extra adults).

I would say have a chat with the Head about the school in special measures; it is my experience that a reputation- good or bad- takes yeras to shake and so very good schools can be hidden behind a special measures classification. often the work done to bring them out is excellent with SN kids. Whereas, we have used the school matching teh village one (great for NT, not for SN) and would say avoid.

[PolarEyes]

I am trying to remember at what point school naming came up when we went through the statementing system for DS1. I am fairly sure it was when we got the proposed statement which was issued about 4 months after we put our statement request in, and 3 months after the deadline for school applications on the standard system.
So you should probably have moved before you have to name a school on the statement, depending on how the process goes for you.

We chose to send DS1 to a MS 5 miles away (not our nearest). We had to agree to sign a waiver that we would transport him there and back and in the event we couldn't/wouldn't do that he would be transferred to our local school. It is under-subscribed so the issue of infant class size didn't apply.

Also fill out the standard application as you may get into your school of choice without the statement (though obv you will probably want your DD statemented so her needs are met it would give you a bit of peace of mind). there is usually a box for medical grounds for school choice so you can send your extra evidence for that too.

[used2bthin]

Thanks all. I am feeling so stressed about this as I don't even really have a preferred school yet. Well, I do in the area we live now but we may move outof the area (we are def moving somewhere just not sure where and renting so won't know til january for sure as it depends what comes up.


SMA thatis a good point about the school in special measures, it has always been a badly run school though and the super head and his team would be gone before DD goes, he is currently refusing to see prospective parents which makes me worry more! With her medicalcondition alone Iwould have concerns as they don't seem to be coping (its actually problems with safety and care of the children I have heard-I know its all hearsay though) so I woud be terrified of leaving them in charge of a child with a serious condition een without her s and l issues. I do agree though, sometimes being in special measures can be positive for the school and its easy to get carried away with the general schools panic.

So if apply for schools living where we do now, then move and have to reapply it may be possible she would get in if/when the statement comes?

lougle with the statement who decides which school to name as the school of choice?

[used2bthin]

Just bumping this and also to update, the early years inclusion teacher came today and wassaying maybe DD isn't going to need a statement as only the mose severe cases should be geting them. She has given me a massive folder to fill in about DD's deveopment to see which areas (obviously s and l is a given)she needs most support in. She said then she will look into what she needs in playgroup and what she is likely to need at school.

I feel a bit reassured as things are happening now but really, is it possible that a child whose s and l is delayed by two years and has very poor concentration doesnt need a statement or am I misunderstanding?

[PolarEyes]

I was told DS1 wasn't severe enough to get a statement. He has one, and at no point did I have to appeal. In fact they gave him 25hrs LSA support straight-off (standard for my LA is to offer 12). So I would strongly suggest you ignore the inclusion teacher and apply for the statement yourself, asap.

WRT to school choices, I was given the option of naming a few at proposed statement stage. We only named one (had to sign a waiver as I mentioned above) then LA entered into discussions with the school. The one we chose was under-subscribed so I can't give any advice on what happens if it is over-subscribed - perhaps worth doing a new OP asking if anyone has been in that position and what happened.

[used2bthin]

Wow that is great, I have been tod she can get five hours support without a statement but that is only ok at pre school really so I suppose it depends what happens at school.

Iam trying to make sure we move before the deadline for school applications but its hard as just caled about a house available in december and was told we'd have to take it now which I can't afford to do as am tied into the contract here till january. So hopefuly she won't be a late application but it could happen.

I have done her developmental journal which the EYSENIT said she would use along with her observations to decide about support but she is keeping very quiet about what she thinks.

I hate this not severe enough thing, DD can't tell me what goes on at pre school or interact freely with the adults or children I can't see how they can say she doesn't need help. I am guessing you applied yourself for the statement?
h also have an assessment at ican booked end of this month so hoping that will help.

[PolarEyes]

just seen a thread here you might want to read www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/1074021-Does-anyone-know-what-happens-if-you-name-a-school-on-the-statement-but-its-full

Schools usually have their own budget up to a point - for DS1's school that is 5 hours which they have to provide themselves (so in his statement LA are funding 20hrs).

It must be hard to know what to do when you have a move in the offing - only thing you can reasonably do is leave the standared application as late as possible but get your statement request in asap so by the time naming a school comes up (when proposed statement is issued) you should have moved house.


The Specialist TEacher drafted me out a letter but by then I had gone into stuck record mode whenever the subject of "wait and see how he does first" "he isn't severe enough" e.g. "I will be applying for a statement. I will be applying for a statement. I will be applying for a statement."

I really like DS1's Specialist Teacher but you have to remember LA staff are under huge pressure wrt to budgets and resources. Not all children do need a statement but only you can really guage if 5 hours a week of support will be enough. Even if they do a Stat assessment and don't issue a statement but issue a Note in Lieu, your DD will have been assessed by Ed Psych, SALT, Paediatrician and her difficulties will be down in black and white. I also believe the Note in Lieu will detail what should be put in place (downside is there is a Note in Leiu isn't as legally binding wrt to provision, but you are in a better position to shout IYGWIM).

HTH a little

[imahappycamper]

usedtobethin It is probably worth applying for a Statutory Assessment yourself for all the reasons others have given. Sitting back and waiting because other people have said you won't get one doesn't make sense.
Look on IPSEA's website for information about how to make a request and get yourself a Special Needs Code of Practice if you haven't got one already.

[used2bthin]

Thankyou Polareyes that does help. It sounds like with a statement we could get her in to the best school for her then. I am so unsure as to what she need, she is very happy and sociable at playgroup but her understanding is probably quite delayed too but impossible to work out how much with the lack of understandable speech.

So stressed with all of this, have just started work again and messed up and committed myself to two jobs so am doing more hours than I wanted to be so trying to sort childcare for a child with serious health issues etc and also need to know where we will live to sort that out. S think we just need to move asap (moving half way between where I am now and where my boyfriend currently lives so we can live together so another huge change!)

imahappycamper thank you yes its true it doesn't make sense to keep waiting we have waited for two years with wait and see type stuff.

[PolarEyes]

The purpose of the Stat Assessment is to work out what provision your DD needs so don't stress too much about the finer details. With a serious health issue along with a 2year S&L delay I would seriously question any decision not to assess and actually issue a statement.

This thread has some good ideas on what to put in your request letter. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/special_needs/1077578-Can-someone-check-this-for-me

Hope all the work and house move stuff isn't too stressful.

[used2bthin]

Thanks Polareyes. Will have alook. Or parents have now both said they will help so we can move before school applications which makes things a bit less stressful.Scary as wouldnt choose to have such a life changing move alongside starting my firstjob since having DD but I think we just need to get on and do it.

Will still follow advice here with the statement though, think after the ican assessment but will start it off before that.

[PolarEyes]

Excellent news that your and your DP's parents are going to help with the move.

I've heard the ican assessments are really good, that should really strengthen your case re statement.