Tonight's the night...

[jojo02]

Ok, don't all scream at me at once, but after months of DD refusing to go to bed (ie, her bed, alone, as opposed to my bed, snuggled up with me)I've decided to give the controlled crying thing a serious try. She's just turned two, and up until 3 months ago she was the perfect angel at bedtime, I'd put her in her cot/bed and not here a peep until morning. Now she's refusing to go down, and waking in the night.
It's now been an hour and a half and she's still yelling her head off - not crying, shouting for me!

Reassurance please!!!

[jojo02]

Help! I's now been an hour and fifty minutes. She still doesn't seem too distressed, but she has filled her nappy twice, which is EXTREMELY unusual.
Is this her bodies way of expressing stress? She is quieting down a little, but I'm worried that she may be more upset than she seems.
I can't go on the way we have been doing, but I don't want to harm my daughter!

HELP!!!!

[TrinityRhino]

I wouldn't do it
you said yourself that filling her nappy twice is very unusual

just give her the comfort she nneds
shes little
it wont be forever

[devilsadvocaat]

keep going! do not give in, she will be fine and you will never look back.

[devilsadvocaat]

haha.

xposts trinity

whatever you decide, give it for a few days before you change your approach. she'll need time to adjust.

ps - you won't harm her.

[tvaerialmagpiebin]

I would agree with Trinity. Could you consider a slightly less abrupt way? I know it is hard when they don't sleep but she is still quite small.

[devilsadvocaat]

i disagree. 2 yo is not too young to be put to bed and left. if you can handle your toddler awake with you in the evenings, or alseep on the sofa with you then i think you deserve a medal.

personally it would drive me crazy and i need to know he's in bed so i can have some time to mn myself.

get a really firm routine, time and bedtime activity.

put dd to bed.

leave to cry, going in at intervals you feel comfortable with (lengthen each time). it won't last forever.

[jojo02]

We're now up to 2 hours 15. She's sitting behind the gate on her bedroom door and just shouting me occasionally. Expecting to go up and find her asleep on the floor in a minute!
God this is hard. Hope it will be easier tomorrow

Oh, an dno more filled nappies yet!

[devilsadvocaat]

yes yes yes. the shouting thing. i'm sure it won't be long now.

if i were you i'd just leave her until she falls asleep.

tomorrow may be the same story but day 3 will be better

[KeithTalent]

Oh god, this is "breaking" a child, not nurturing them.

I hope you do what you feel is right in your heart.

Hope she's asleep now.

[devilsadvocaat]

keithtalent, people have different levels of what they can tolerate. i couldn't cope with rocking a 2yo to sleep every night. jojo02 wants some support here, not a flaming.

[jojo02]

2 hours 30 and asleep on the floor, yay! Now I've just got to move her to her bed...

Quick reply to those against the controlled crying approach...

When this reluctance to settle first started I tried the softly softly approach. I spent hours sitting at the end of her bed and trying to creep further away. After about a month I'd got as far as the bedroom door, but then had to start all over again when she decided I was too far away. I then tried having a travel cot in my bedroom. I had to pretend to go to bed with her until she fell asleep, she then got to the point where she just wouldn't settle unless she was in bed with me.

She used to ge to bed at 7:30 and wake at 6. Recently she's been getting to sleep at around 11 and up at 4, with no daytime nap - unless we're in the house and I could snuggle up on the settee with her.

I know the controlled crying method is harsh (on me as well as her!), but in this case I really do think it's a case of cruel to be kind.

[jojo02]

Oh, and thanks for the support devil!

[TrinityRhino]

hmm different levels of what they can tolerate?

hmm what about NOT 'breaking' your childs will

you are supposed to be there for them all the time

thats what parenting is about
making them feel secure enough to eventually not need what they are asking for at the moment

seriously go cuddle her to sleep

she wont be doing it forever

[TrinityRhino]

dont agree with your post of beiong cruel to be kind
try working out why she has started to need you near her more

nurture it, make her secure and she will come away

its not fucking rocket science

appreciate them

[jojo02]

Trinity, the cuddling to sleep thing was taking hours, and we couldn't be disturbed or we would have to start all over again. I have other kids to consider, so this wasn't a viable option.

She has just fallen asleep, not too traumatised, and not hurt in any way. I'm sure tomorrow will be easier, and she will soon re-learn that bedtime means sleep.

I was not surviving on 4(ish) hours sleep a night, and she was unbelievably grotty through the day too - recipe for disaster.

I'm a single parent with two kids, I need to be at my best FOR BOTH OF THEM.

If there was a miracle cure for sleep deprivation I'd use it, but untill then...

[grownupbabes]

Trinity you're back. Love and strength to you x

[devilsadvocaat]

trinity, with all due respect, i don't believe that what works for one, works for everyone.

i wouldn't let my child eat drink fizzy pop all day because i believe it is bad for him. in a similar way, i believe it is bad for my child to not have a good night sleep.

when we were on hol in the summer, i lay with ds whilst he fell asleep every nap and bedtime. it was lovely. i didn't want him to be scared and it's not his normal environment. it was lovely to see him fall asleep but when we got home i knew i couldn't continue to do it. i don't have it in me to lie there for 30 mins each night after stories and songs. maybe you're a better person if you can but i haven't done my son any harm by leaving him to shout for me for a few nights.

everyone has different ways of handling situations in life, parenting is no different.

[sunshiney]

there are other kinds of sleep training than 'controlled crying'. they need to be trained to feel safe in their bed, get used to falling asleep, first with your support - which you gradually withdraw. controlled crying just gives them the message that they better give up and sleep as nobody is coming.

This book is brilliant and shows you how to do it, it helped me solve my dd's sleep problem.

www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Yourself-Baby-Sleep-General/dp/0340939583?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

[devilsadvocaat]

trinity, i do appreciate my ds.

i just don't have the same views as you on this topic i guess. i don't think you are wrong in your approach, it works for you but it wouldn't work for me. can't you understand that?

[jojo02]

Okay, DD is asleep IN HER BED, The dishes are done before midnight (no time after dinner usually because of bathing DD and getting her ready for bed)for the first time in months, so I'm going to go to bed now and enjoy a poteneial six hours sleep - luxury

I'll leave you to argue amongst yourselves for now, but will doubtless be back here tomorrow when the shouting recomenses (spelling?)

Night all!

[TrinityRhino]

I wont be back to argue tommorow
I shouldn't have commented
I'm sorr
I truly do believe that controlled crying is damaging and sending very wrong messages to your young children

this has meant that I haven't slept more than three hours striaght in four years (2 years age gap)

and sometimes dont get an evening

it sucks but its a must

my dh was killed at the end of aug and I am not responding properly to things
normally I would just walk on by a thread like this as I cant cope with it

I should have done this tonight
I'm sorry
I wish you well

[aristocat]

TR no need to be sorry
we all love you and WISH YOU WELL

[devilsadvocaat]

trinity, you don't have to apologise.
sorry to hear about dh