Up at 5 with 4.5yo and nearly 2yo. Help.

[ilovetosleep]

I'm at a complete loss. Until around November DS1 slept reliably 7-6.30. DS2 woke every 2 hours but slept until around 7am. Then miraculously he started sleeping through, but with it came difficult bedtimes and 5am starts. Difficult bedtimes we can deal with - gradual retreat is helping - but the 5 am starts are slowly killing us all - he wakes screaming and wakes up poor DS1 who is in Reception and utterly exhausted. He can't get back to sleep, in fact he is raring to go. He needs a poo soon after waking and that wakes him up completely.

At the moment DH goes to DH2 and keeps him in the spare bed until 6.30 when he brings hime to me for his morning BF. Sometimes he goes back to sleep, sometimes not. If I go, he feeds but definitely won't go back to sleep.
I keep DS1's monitor (he sleeps downstairs and we can't hear him without it). He calls me to say he's awake. then he calls me to tell me he needs a poo, then he calls me to wipe his bum, then he calls to ask if he can get up yet, every 5 bloody minutes. He had a grow clock since 2.5 yrs which worked wonders until DS2 started this early morning nightmare. He now has a digital clock - I have told him if it starts with a 6 he can read in bed, 7 he can go downstairs. Anything else he MUST GO BACK TO SLEEP. But he won't. And he won't stop chatting away to me on the monitor. I've tried threatening to turn it off but he gets so upset. I've tried letting him come into my bed - he tosses and turns but will not sleep. I've tried getting into his bed - same story. The problem is, he is shattered. I can't put him in the car without him falling asleep - any time of day, by the end of the road he's asleep. He cries a lot with exhaustion, he's a wreck by the time I collect him from school

We were supposed to be putting them in to the same room soon and tbh we may as well as the walls are paper thin anyway, but I just need to get them sleeping a bit later.

Help!

[FATEdestiny]

A simple thing with DS1 - Can he count to 50? Change his get-up time to something like 6.50am instead of 7.00am. At reception age children don't understand the passage of time fully, so he will not understand how long until he can get up. But he might be able to count up to a big number. If he can count up to 50 then he can see the time says 06:21 and watch it counting up the minutes 22, 23, 24... and so on, in a way he understands.

Is DS2 in a separate room to DS1? If not, I would be inclined to make a ready-bed in my room for one of them until this is sorted. Divide and concur.

The morning pooing seems to be an issue with both of them. None of my children have pooed straight away upon waking. Without wishing to provide TMI, it usually needs a little exercise or movement to get the bowels moving. So in my experience waking to poo is not 'normal'. I wonder if changing their diet may help? Maybe looking at the time they eat before bedtime and the kinds of food they eat before bed?

[ilovetosleep]

Thanks for the reply.
Wrt Poo, it's justDS1. I don't think he wakes to PPP, I think DS2 wakes him and he just has got into the habit of getting up to poo because he's awake and it's down thing. To do. and as a result it's become a part of his body clock. dS2 doesn't usually poo until lunch time.

I think you're right about the passage of time - he has no idea how long it is between waking and getting up. I think changing the clock is maybe a good idea.

We already divide and conquer - but it's just not working, we are all suffering and putting them I together would make no difference. I think we need to tackle DS2s waking first,

[ilovetosleep]

Wow just spotted all those typos. Should have said 'something to do.' Anyway this morning DS2 didn't wake until 5.50, and DS1 followed 2 mins after. So dS2 is definitely the problem, he is definitely the problem...