Waking early and babbling 8 month old

[WorkingItOutForMyself]

Ok here's the full situation so as not to drip feed.

My DS is a 8 months old. Always been a very typical sleeper. Not terrible, not amazing. We suffered badly in the 4 month sleep regression but things improved after about 5 weeks.

Between 6-8 months he'd wake once or twice a night. If he woke before 1am a quick cuddle and putting his dummy back in would do the trick. If he woke after that we would just quickly bring him into bed with us. We slowly cut down then dropped the night feed no problems. He'd sleep with the odd few minutes awake from 7:30-7:30.

But now we're in the 8 month wonder week/sleep regression/learning to crawl stage. He's waking slightly later the second time, at around 4am. I have tried cuddling him back to sleep, but he is just wriggling and kicking against me and doing all he can to look around the pitch black room. Me cuddling him seems not to calm him down. Last night I even tried to feed him to see if he was hungry. He took the bottle, fell asleep but then woke as soon as I put him down. This morning it took from 3:30-5:30 for him to get back to sleep.

When he wakes up, he doesn't cry really. He might have a few cries but then he'll just roll about in his cot, babbling to himself and play with his dummy. I have gotten into the habit of going into him as soon as he wakes as I felt this would help him settle quicker as he's had less time to wake himself up properly iyswim.

So none of our old techniques are working, and it's time for some new ones I think. If I cuddle him he fights and in bed with us he just kicks and claws our faces .

I have been tempted to try CC but will only do it as a last resort and when he wakes he doesn't actually cry for quite a while I didn't know if there were other options. I am back working so have to be up at 6:30 anyway... It's not ideal!!

In the day we struggle similarly with naps. He still has 3. We used to be able to extend the lunchtime nap by cuddling him back to sleep, he'd then sleep for up to 2.5 hours. Not anymore. His eyes ping open after 30-40 mins and the babbling begins. I really hoped that spending weeks helping him extend his long nap wth cuddling would put him into the habit of doing this himself, but it hasn't.

We sleep trained during the 4 month sleep regression successfully, we waned to be able to put him in his cot. We can put him down for bed and naps after a quick cuddle and he'll go to sleep in his cot beautifully. But we didn't really tackle the night wakings, just initial settling. We do hear him stir and re settle himself at times in the night so he can do it.

Any advice for me? Is the 8 month sleep regression one to just wait out? Thanks!

[FATEdestiny]

I've not got the wonder weeks app but if this age is a known regression then it might be less stressful all-round just to wait it out.

What about giving water in the night? My DD (8 months) is night weaned in terms of milk but will freely drink about 4oz of water some nights, she's clearly occasionally thirsty which I'm fine with getting up to deal with.

I have also found DD is appreciating a but of tight-secure feeling at night, especially so now she is climbing and crawling in the cot. It settles her, calms her but importantly encourages her to lie still (which has been out big issue recently).

We are swaddling but I appreciate this is not usual for babies this old. Our DD is loving it though, has clearly solved all her wriggling and shuffling, not able to get comfy to go to sleep problems.

Maybe a tightly tucked in blanket may help in the same way?

It might just be a case of riding it out though. I recall with my other children having to go through a "no, we lie down to sleep" phase where I had to keep repeatedly lying down baby as s/he kept standing up in the cot at sleep time.

[GoodToesBadToes]

I think swaddledNot and blankets are actually dangerous at 8 months old as babies are so mobile.

I would leave him to babble, if he actually starts to cry then go in and put your hand on his chest and say shhhh sleepy time and walk out. Do this at 2-5 minute intervals. Don't pick him up or cuddle him as you will stimulate him more.

Is the room properly blacked-out?

[FATEdestiny]

Got any evidence for that statement GoodToesBadToes? Or are you just guessing? Because I have been diligently researching this week.

Lullaby Trust do not recommend starting swaddling after 3 months old but as long as swaddling was established before 3 months old they do not offer a 'finish by' date.

Likewise NHS.

Unable to find anything specifically mentioned by NICE, so far.

Anecdotally I would (and was) worried about swaddling when my DD was of the developmental stage where she was first learning to roll. I can see how it would be a risk when the child can roll onto front but may not be strong enough to roll back or lift head.

But as a wise HV once said, if you have a baby strong enough to be able to get the momentum to roll themselves back to front on the flat surface, then said baby should also be strong enough to lift head and shout if in difficulty.

But as I said, I still worried about swaddling through the rolling stage. I wouldn't recommend swaddling to someone else through the rolling stage because of the risk.

Now though, with a mobile baby like OP, I cannot logically see any risk and nor can I find any evidence for any suggestion that there might be a risk. Indeed the NHS goes into detail to explain that culturally many communities swaddle their children long term.

At 8 months DD is close to walking. She can easily crawl, climb, pull to standing and lower to sitting, She has fine manipulation skills. If she doesn't want to be in her swaddle anymore (like in the mornings), she can take it off herself easily.

[FATEdestiny]

Correction:

"But as a wise HV once said, if you have a baby strong enough to be able to get the momentum to roll themselves back to front on the flat surface while swaddled, then said baby should also be strong enough to lift head and shout if in difficulty."

[GoodToesBadToes]

Blankets are absolutely dangerous and shouldn't be used.

I think that swaddled are also dangerous to introduce as a new thinkin sure its fine to do prolonged swaddling but there is no way I'd be swaddling after many months or for the first time at 8 months.

[GoodToesBadToes]

My phone is so annoying. Hope you can make out what I'm saying through the typos!

[Newtobecomingamum]

I totally agree with GoodToesBadToes points raised. Also, surely baby would be more frustrated thinking why it was suddenly being restricted in a swaddle not being able to move limbs. I was always told that the crawling and rolling around in bed was developmental, they are practicing stretching, moving and enjoying their new skills. I wouldn't all of a sudden start restricting them. Also I'm def a no no with blankets too. I think it's always better to be safer than sorry. I swaddled for first two months of birth and then used save certified sleep grow bags that my son loves.

[WorkingItOutForMyself]

We actually swaddled up until 6 months ish (he really needed it) so yes maybe it is worth trying it again. It might just help.

Think I'll give it a few days first, we seem to be successfully transitioning to 2 naps. He slept for 90 mins this morning and then 45 this afternoon. Not quite as much as I'd like but he did have 12.5 hours sleep last night (in the end!!!)

Thanks for the suggestion Fate.

GoodToes I think I'll also try the shushing. Willpower required!!!

[GlitterTwinkleToes]

Sorry, have I missed something obvious?
Why are blankets dangerous to have over them during the night?

[FATEdestiny]

They are not Glitter. The 'feet to foot' guidance is precisely for babies who are tucked in using blankets. Can be safely used from birth in the feet to foot position so I am not sure what GoodToesBadToes is referring to to be honest.

WorkingItOutForMyself Babies who are swaddled later are not the norm, so nice to find a baby like my own . My DD is the first of my four children to have tolerated (let alone loved) to be swaddled past 12 weeks or so. But I cannot find anything to suggest it is dangerous or shouldn't be done.

Some guidance I have find on swaddling:

• Don't swaddle legs tightly (for fear of damage to the hips). NCT recommend legs in the 'frog position' for swaddling, but this is in relation to younger babies. Our swaddle sheet only just covers DDs bottom, reaches about her thighs. So never tight around legs.

• Don't introduce a swaddle for the first time past 3 months (as mentioned)

• Care taken when swaddling through the learning to roll phase.

If your DS liked the swaddle later anyway, it might just be his personal preference. It might not too, but worth a try. I wonder if my DD will ultimately prefer the sheets/blankets tucked in bedding rather than a sleeping bag. She clearly likes the tight, secure feeling. I'll swaddle her as long as she wants it though

[Newtobecomingamum]

Hi Glitter, I think it's personal preference and people have their own point of view on it.

My friend used a blanket tightly tucked in for her 5m old and she found him in the night stuck at the other end of the cotbed and was so twisted up and head under the blanket. The blanket had holes in it and was ok, but she never used a blanket again after that.

Again, it's parents choice but some people like me think there are risks at that age.

[GoodToesBadToes]

Exactly. The baby can get out from under the blanket and turn around, getting entangled in it. It really is not safe.

[GoodToesBadToes]

FATE I know you spend a lot of valuable time & energy giving advice on these boards so I'm not having a go by the way.

[FATEdestiny]

It's OK, any forum or thread works better with lots of different opinions.

However it isn't helpful to say things like "it really is not safe" when that simply isn't true or in line with any official guidance. Saying, "this is not something I would do because...." is fair enough and is a useful opinion to add into the discussion.

But mentioning red flag words like "dangerous" and "not safe" for something that is routinely done by lots of Mums (and is officially safe, assuming positioning is considered) - would be an unnecessary cause for anxiety for parents reading this who may well be feeling anxious, worried or vulnerable anyway (as many new FTM are).