Music gcse - from nothing??

[RosesforMama]

Just had a first options discussion with my year 9 boy.
Much to my surprise he claims not to want to do triple science, and wants to do music gcse in the vacant slot instead.

This boy is extremely able in maths, science, computing sphere and does well across the board. For example his French teacher sent an email saying she hopes he will do French.

However he has never shown any interest in music until very recently when he has started buying LPs (vinyl) by obscure bands with his pocket money. He has no means of playing the vinyl but says he doesn't need to, he can stream it. I have therefore been thinking of him as developing a bit of a "collector" thing. No doubt he'll buy himself hugely expensive speakers for his first home, that kind of thing.

He doesn't play any instrument and really cannot sing a note, poor lamb.

However he is very bright, can usually turn his hand successfully to most things, and is mathematically very able (Olympiad level) and I know there is often a correlation between maths and musical ability. But I always thought that if he was driven to music it might have shown before now. He never wanted lessons at primary, is pretty shy and not a performer. He doesn't fly through his music homework and his teacher certainly isn't gushing over him.

I don't like to crush him but I think he's potentially chucking away grade 8 or 9 in the triple sciences to possibly get himself, with a lot of hard work, to a possible low pass.

How hard is it to take up an instrument as a total novice at the start of gcse music, and still pass well?

My current thought is to get him some online music tuition (he says he wants to learn piano...of course we don't have one) starting immediately and see how he gets on; whether he changes his mind or it becomes clear he hasn't a hope before options have to be in.
What do others think? If it's impossible it would be useful to be able to tell him so.

[LostArcher]

They usually want grade 5 as a minimum to do gcse. I doubt very much that this would be a good choice. He won't have any of the background in theory. I think he needs a very realistic conversation with the head of music. Also to get the high grades you have to be really good. For example one of my pupils plays at National Youth Orchestra level but was told not to do music in a year as their theory wasn't up to it - they'd pass but not get the 8 or 9 they should. This is someone who practices for two hours a day.

[RosesforMama]

Thanks Lostarcher
That's helpful.

[Gogglebox20]

No grade 5 is A level not GCSE. However, he will need to be confident on one instrument at least and have some good theory knowledge of at least grade 1-3. Listening skills also very important.

[Gogglebox20]

I know a student who had very little theory knowledge but played an instrument very well who passed their gcse music theory with a good B grade and that’s in the last three years. Music is not an easy subject unless it interests you. I would probably steer him towards the sciences.

[AChickenCalledDaal]

Not all schools insist on grade 5. My daughters school doesn't have a minimum requirement and accepts kids that haven't had any instrumental lessons apart from curriculum music. The performance requirement is more equivalent to grade 4, with limited extra marks for exceeding that.

But starting completely from scratch would be really hard and I think he'd get a shock. There is a lot of music theory which kids with high preformed grade will already know. And you also have to compose.

I have two daughters - the eldest had grade 4 piano under their belt when they started the course and got a grade 9. The youngest is doing it now. She's an excellent singer, but doesn't have individual lessons. We thought that was going to be OK as they would do an ensemble performance, which she's pretty good at. But Covid has wrecked that opportunity, since singing together is not possible right now. And she's really struggling with the composition and looking likely to scrape a low grade at best.

[MiddlesexGirl]

In general you'd need a grade 4/5 or above to be thinking of grade C (or whatever the equivalent is these days) and above.

[CMeredithC]

How hard is it to take up an instrument as a total novice at the start of gcse music, and still pass well?

Professional musician here (with a name change).

It's not impossible to achieve a decent GCSE standard from nothing in 2-3 years, but do you think he'll dedicate a lot of time to it?

Music GCSE isn't only about talking about music genres and analysing different bands.

There is performing - do you see him practising 30 mins of piano each day?
There is music theory - do you see him learning pages and pages of terms and rules that a lot of his colleagues might've learnt when they were 6 or 8?
There is composing - which is difficult to start doing until you've got a good music theory base.

Music is an amazing subject to study and yes, I would recommend my beginner child took it. However, they'd need to dedicate a huge amount of time to it. Music is like a foreign language, it needs to be learnt step by step. Would that take away time from his other subjects? Only he can know that.

[AuntieUrsula]

DD1 did music GCSE last year. Their school recommended grade 4 standard on an intrument or singing but didn't have a requirement for theory. Tbh the amount of theory they need is not that great - nothing like Grade 5 theory.

It probably depends on the exam board, but for DD 20% of the marks was performance (2 pieces), 20% composition (2 pieces) and 60% written exam (which didn't happen in the end, of course). The exam covered world music - eg they did a module on Indian drumming and one on Israeli folk music - and listening to a piece of classical music and writing something intelligent about it. What DD found hardest was the dictation - they hear a line or two of music and have to write it down in musical notation.

Whether your DS would do OK at it would depend on how much of a natural he is and how keen he would be to work at it. If he's not a singer, the easiest instruments to pick up quickly are probably woodwind. He's still got a bit of time to try out an instrument before committing himself - or will it be hard for him to change his GCSE options later if he wants to? You may find he goes off the idea as suddenly as he adopted it.

I would just say, in DD's class quite a number of kids took the GCSE as a perceived soft option only to get a bit of rude awakening!

[Palavah]

What about starting singing or instrumental lessons as a complement to his GCSEs, and if he takes to it he could do a music GCSE alongside his A levels as an extra-mural subject.
If not then it's a creative outlet.

[trilbydoll]

I am not musical, and didn't take it at GCSE, although I struggled my way to Grade 5 clarinet during secondary school. I started learning piano aged about 8, so I had no problem reading music. I also did Grade 5 theory. I cannot express how difficult the composition was, I just jotted down notes at random with absolutely no idea what they would sound like! I can't think of anything harder than GCSE music from a standing start.

[clary]

I wouldn't advise it op.

Why doesn't he want to do triple science? Much better idea if he might do A level science.

[RosesforMama]

Clary - no idea. I think he perhaps doesn't enjoy it much, esp biology. But he effortlessly (so far) gets high marks and to me these are easy wins. And I think he's just discovering his musical tastes, enjoying finding out who he is...he likes niche stuff, nothing mainstream for him. I think he would love to do "musical exploration and analysis" GCSE if such a thing existed. Without the need to play, perform or compose. Like film studies, but for music.

I think encouraging him to explore music for pleasure makes more sense.

[clary]

@RosesforMama

Clary - no idea. I think he perhaps doesn't enjoy it much, esp biology. But he effortlessly (so far) gets high marks and to me these are easy wins. And I think he's just discovering his musical tastes, enjoying finding out who he is...he likes niche stuff, nothing mainstream for him. I think he would love to do "musical exploration and analysis" GCSE if such a thing existed. Without the need to play, perform or compose. Like film studies, but for music.

I think encouraging him to explore music for pleasure makes more sense.

Ah., music GCSE isn't that at all. He has to do biology anyway, if he is good at science, he's then got a head start on A level Chemistry or physics.

[RedskyBynight]

There was a boy in DS's year who only started playing an instrument at the start of Year 9 and I don't think the (and this is in a very inclusive school, certainly no grade requirements here) Head of Music would have considered accepting someone who hadn't even started by that stage. I think it will be a big ask, sorry, unless he has previously unsuspected natural musical ability.

You should also be aware that performing is only 30% of the GCSE - there is also composing(30%) and musical appreciation (40%). DS (who was a decent performer) really struggled with composing in particular and DD (who loved performing) ran kicking and screaming away from the idea GCSE Music as she really didn't want to do the other bits.

Nothing you've said suggests that your DS would be a great fit for GCSE music - sorry. However, if he is keen to learn there is no harm in starting lessons, for learning's sake alone. You should also sit and go through the requirements of the GCSE with him - does he really understand what they are? Also, I'd say it's worth exploring whether it's not doing triple science, rather than positively doing music that attracts him - is he looking at a very academically heavy set of subjects and wants some light release?

[Stokey]

If he wants to learn the piano, you could get him a keyboard to start if you can afford it. Much cheaper than a piano and fine to learn on for the first couple of years. Then he could always progress to a piano later if he wanted.

[cosmikdebris]

music is such an underated and important skill, its so theraputic and is so much less soulless than other subjects. itll help develop character too. its awesome that hes into vinyl, i wish i started collecting at that age!. maybe im biased, im 20 with my first daughter at 7 months old right now, and im so excited to see what she grows to love so maybe im projecting, lol. my mother wouldnt let me study music for GCSE, i had to do history instead, and i failed. i went on to study a lvl3 btec in music technolgy and passed with flying colours.

music gcse will include some exploration and analysis actually, theyll likely show him a lot of styles of music he wouldve otherwise never shown interest in, and he'll learn a lot of music history and the science of music too. its not just theory.

do him a favour and show some interest. talk about what music he likes and try to see the best in it, even if you dont like it.

learning piano is the easiest way to learn music theory too. it makes it easy to transfer on to other instruments in the future if he goes down that route.

all i can say is if your child is forced to study something they dont like, they probably wont do very well. speaking from experience!

[Schoolhouse123]

My youngest has just started year 7 and the music teacher told them they wouldn't be able to consider music if they weren't at grade 3 by year 9. What grade is he at now?
At dc3 school they all choose an instrument in y7 and play this for 3 years in the hope of doing 1 grade a year. But at Dc1s school they don't learn a musical instrument so very different scenarios and starting points when they get to year 10.

[RosesforMama]

Schoolhouse: he has never played an instrument outside of school music lessons.

I think he's starting too far behind.

[lanthanum]

I think you'd be better to encourage him to take music up out of school (if you are able to support this) but not as a GCSE. That also means he can focus on the aspects of music that interest him most.
An extra reason for doing triple science is that most of the ablest pupils are likely to, and if there is a separate group for those doing triple, he may enjoy the subjects more if he's in that peer group.

[Londonmummy66]

I'm afraid he is going to be really behind and I doubt he would be able to catch up sufficiently. He needs to be able to perform a piece on his own and one with someone else, compose 2 pieces of music and write them out in correct notation ie not just a case of singing them into a camera. These practical elements account for 60% of the marks. Then the written paper includes an element of analysis and aural tests where he will be asked to eg write out in musical notation a passage played to him, identify intervals between notes when he hears them played to him etc, comment on an excerpt from a written score. For someone who has been learning an instrument since year 7 and got to grade 3/4 it's not too difficult - although not everyone finds composition easy even with multiple grade 8s behind them. It's a very skills based exam and I don't think it is possible to do well if there isn't a reasonable foundation to build on before starting the course. Also your DS needs to understand that he won't just be listening to the music he likes - he'll have to listen to music written over a 400 year period - if he doesn't want to sit and listen to Bach and Beethoven etc then he might not enjoy that element of it either.

I think that he would be better learning an instrument alongside his GCSEs and then if he likes music he can take the GCSE later in life.

[Evvyjb]

I would say he is too far behind to start GCSE now - if he's into vinyl etc he could start studying the rock school grades which have less focus on traditional theory.

Many moons ago I did GCSE and A Level music (and then went on to do a music post-grad). I remember one girl who had grade 2 at gcse and really struggled. I am ALL for students doing music, but he might want to channel it into a less theoretical approach.

[MothExterminator]

I have younger children, but I would worry about it OP. I would echo the PPs who said to focus on the fun side of music. He could start playing an instrument he enjoys and also start doing music theory if he enjoys that.

My oldest DS (year 7) is into music, but doesn’t like to practice (I nag him into 20 min a day) and he would hate the commitment of music GCSE. He just like playing in orchestras (but still prefers sports) and having fun. That is to be put in the context that he is doing grade 7 on his first instrument.

One thing I have noticed is that even someone like him (quite lazy and non committed) has a huge advantage compared to children who haven’t done music. He easily got to grade 5 level on a second instrument (completely different category, think wind vs. string which was due to him being able to read music easily) and has no problems in analysing and writing music, mainly due to years of orchestra playing. You have a massive advantage if you have done a lot of music already and even then a music GCSE may not be right for you. It isn’t for my DS who ritually burned all his grade 5 materials after having passed the theory exam. Add to that the mental stress of studying with people who effortlessly gets everything whilst you struggle. Is your DC maybe so good at most topics that he thinks that music will come easy as well?

Again, there is so much fun in music, so many ensembles and orchestras to join after a certain level - with much less stress (auditioning is still scary).

[Porcupineintherough]

Education is about more than exam grades. I'd be less worried that he wont get a 9 and more that he doesn't understand what he'd be undertaking. But if he does, and he's willing, then why not? If everything else is effortless, having a subject that he really has to work at might be quite a good idea.

[crazycrofter]

I think you have to play at grade 4 level to get the top grades in the performance part - but that's in year 11, he has two years to get there. So I would say it is perfectly possible, if he's motivated and reasonably able.

Ds is doing Music (year 10). The last piano grade he did was grade 2 in year 8. He was supposed to do grade 3 in year 9 but lockdown happened. He hadn't really progressed much to be honest due to lack of practice, so he was probably just about on course for doing grade 3 in summer of year 9. Except that he suddenly developed an interest and practised and practised... he is about to start grade 5 (year 10 now) but to be honest, he's at grade 6 level at least. I would say he progressed from grade2/3 in April last year to grade 6 in about six months.

I played piano as well as recorder, trombone and violin. The other instruments were much easier at the lower grades than piano. I seem to recall for trombone, we skipped the first couple of grades and went straight in at grade 3 after a year - and that was without the intense motivation my son has and without much practice! So I would probably choose a slightly 'easier' instrument than piano for rapid progress.

Personally, I'd get him started on lessons now and then if he's lost interest/not made enough progress by September, I'm sure the school will allow him to swap.

[Bramshott]

Could he start playing an instrument for enjoyment over the next couple of years, with a view to doing a BTEC in jazz or rock & pop alongside his A levels if he enjoys it?