Super strong-discipline secondary schools

[Echobelly]

So some of the schools we are looking at for DD are academies and it looks like two of them have reputation for being really strong on discipline, possibly slightly too strong. I have sometimes wondered about the effect of this on kids who don't need it... I feel like DD might find it upsetting and stressful to be in a place that's all sanctions and silence in corridors etc. And in fact just this week a colleague was saying that their son (in Y7 I think) is massively stressed out by the discipline being applied to other kids around him.

I also wonder, in general, whether this approach risks labelling essentially good (ie not intending to make trouble) kids who have poor impulse control and might not be good at staying quiet, as disruptive or naughty when they just might be a bit overenthusiastic?

Anyone have experience of their kids being at a school like this, especially if they are well behaved kids, and how it impacts on their experience?

[twinkletoedelephant]

Dd school is very disciplined, lots of rules from what can be in pencil case, uniform standard to behaviour around school, stand up when teacher enters room etc..

It REALLY works for her she has ASD so knowing what happens and when and even what punishment she would get for not doing/ having what should should, she finds very reassuring.

There has been quite a few pupils leave the school as despite being told repeatedly that this is a very strict school before application, some parents believed rules didn't apply to their dc, and were unhappy with detention) punishment for infringement.

[TheFrendo]

a) It is selection 'by other means'

b) It can be stifling.

c0 It suits some and restricts others.

[Pengggwn]

I wouldn't send a child to the very strictest schools (Michaela and their ilk) but I would be looking for very firm, very consistent discipline, so that my child's education was the priority, not constant disruption by children who were unable to prioritise their education. I see too much of it and it's tragic.

[Echobelly]

Yes, it's finding a balance, isn't it. I wouldn't want my kids going somewhere that lessons are just taken up with kids wasting time by claiming they haven't got a pen, 'I've got to take this phone call', 'I don't get it, sir, you're not a very good teacher are you, sir?' - most misbehaviour I hear about sounds so boring for everyone!

But I think DD might be made very anxious by a heavy-handed approach.

[Middleoftheroad]

My son was at a comp that had strict rules regarding detention/uniform/homework. It was a big comp and there were issues with behaviour - the HT believed that if children had their top buttons done up this would result in good behaviour.

I hated that philosophy. It reminded me of the old adage 'Jesus, you're too scruffy to come in. Herr Hitler, you're so well dressed - come inside!' Ok, extreme, but I found the attitude OTT.

My son had never been in trouble in his life and was possibly the only child not to get a detention while he was there.

First week of y7 many kids issued detentions for bringing wrong socks in to Games.
Same day after school detentions issued for minor misdemeanors and parents notified by email last minute.

It was more stick than carrot.

It didnt impact us as my son was very careful to bring right equipment and wouldn't say boo to a goose/followed rules. But the pettiness around uniform rules was crazy.

Frustratingly, that discipline was not applied to low level disruption in class.

We moved to a school that has a more forward thinking approach.

[Middleoftheroad]

To add - I wanted discipline around disruption and bullying we faced, but instead, discipline was (mis) spent on uniform rules. Bizarre.

[TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince]

I’m not sure what these super strict school achieve. I work in a secondary. No one bothers about top buttons, there is discipline but it’s not really really harsh.

It’s an Ofsted outstanding school.

[Middleoftheroad]

That sounds spot on Emoji.

[PettsWoodParadise]

A friend’s DS was late in his first week in Y7 due to roadworks and bus crowding and got a detention, it really dented his confidence, a build up approach from a warning to something more if it carried on would have been better IMO.

DDs school is very light handed in discipline, if DD forgets clean socks for PE she isn’t disciplined, just has to suffer the opprobrium of her peers which is far worse!

The girls are encouraged to be themselves and rules on makeup change as they progress through the school but generally they don’t wear it as they are not trying to break the rules. The lighter rules seem to mean the girls police themselves and balance peer opinion, rules and common sense in good measure and they make decisions and learn to make judgement calls themselves which seems to set them up well for life rather than always being told what to do.

[grasspigeons]

i worry about this as our secondary has lots of rule - we are still at primary now, but they are getting stricter.
.
My son has the correct school shoes, some members of his class don't. New head has done an assembly about the importance of correct footware. Has emailed parents saying you have till Monday to sort it out. Has been round classrooms and pointed out incorrect uniform. My son is now an absolute nervous wreck despite having the right shoes! He keeps asking are his shoes ok, do we need to buy new shoes and so on.

[Witchend]

We had a choice between a strict and more relaxed and we chose the more relaxed. (for several reasons, but that was one factor)
Because dd1 was a worrier, and hated being in trouble, I felt she would spend so long being afraid of being in trouble.


Her friends who went to the strict school had detentions for the following reasons in the first term:

Late for registration (2nd day-got lost finding the classroom)
Having the wrong ruler (foldable)
Humming while working
Laptop only charge 99% at start of day not 100%
Not having a French Dictionary (that they were only told 2 days earlier they should have-that was in the first week too)

These were all children that never misbehaved or got into trouble.

What we have noticed is that although they sweat the small stuff, they tend to ignore big stuff. Detentions are so common that the children aren't bothered by them.

At the more relaxed school they do seem to generally be much better at knowing what to worry about. It means when there is something comes up that does need dealing with it, they come down hard, sometimes very hard, but the little things they let go.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

I think the only thing that has been achieved in Dniece’s case is making her transition to secondary much harder than it needs to be and putting her off school. I’m assuming that wasn’t the aim.

Fortunately she seems to be trying to get on with it though.

[Biscuitsneeded]

A friend's DD has just left a school (academy) like this. She's a naturally obedient girl, slightly lacking in self confidence. The school made her really stressed. She was living in fear of being in trouble. The last straw was when she spent ages learning French vocab and got a detention because she lost a mark by missing off an accent. She's now at a normal comp, still in top sets but much happier. I'm a teacher. I come down really hard on rudeness, disrupting lessons, littering, being unkind, dangerous behaviour etc. I couldn't care less if their shirt isn't tucked in or their nose is pierced. Obviously I toe the line on this because I have to, but I challenge anyone who thinks uniform etc has any impact on outcomes.

[Echobelly]

Thanks for these insights... sounds like we should try to speak to parents if the discipline raises any eyebrows to see what their perspective is. I also know some teachers who work locally and know a bit about what goes on at nearby schools.

[Echobelly]

Thinking about this, it strikes me this whole 'detention for not having the right stuff' thing, although presumably intended to make kids organise themselves, is just more emotional labour for parents (read: mums) if they have a child who happens to be disorganised. I know some kids take the piss and use 'forgetting' things to waste time and disrupt lessons, but seems there must be a better way than this.