11+, 13+ Highgate Area Schools

[HopscotchShots]

Looking for some ideas and suggestions please regarding schools in the Highgate or Dartmouth Park areas, although a little further out is fine.

Child (Female) is currently 10 (just turned), attends a state school which does not have a good reputation. Sociable, but not academic, although this may just be because of poor education to date (the school is really poor).

I'm curious to know what the options would be in the area, ideally independent - a school that would give a good all round education but wasn't purely academic. Are there any that aren't selective, or where the selection criteria is based on factors other than academics?

[LarkDescending]

Sticking to your brief (though with geographical flexibility) I wonder whether you have considered the North Bridge House schools in Hampstead and (possibly an easier journey) Canonbury?

Highgate and Channing are perfectly located but don’t fit the “non-selective” aspect of what you are looking for.

King Alfred’s in Hampstead is non-selective and quirky - plenty of threads on that - definitely not everyone’s cup of tea but works for some.

But in saying you want independent options - have you considered and rejected your very good state option of Parliament Hill? Also, if you meet faith requirements, La Sainte Union?

[HopscotchShots]

Thank you Lark, Highgate would be our first choice, however, the reality of getting a place at 11+ is very unlikely.

I had a quick look at North Bridge's website today - do you have any personal experience there? I'm not convinced King Alfred's would be the right fit, but again, I haven't crossed it off the list.

I know nothing about Parliament Hill, but will also look into that as well.

[Mary21]

Mill Hill foundation schools,
I believe there is a coach to St Chris in Letchworth from Highgate
Mount House in Hadley Wood
I think Queenswood also has transport from Highgate
Aldenham

[Davros]

DD is at North Bridge House Hampstead and I think it's great. What makes it different to the other independent schools is that it is genuinely mixed ability. It is also co-ed, great premises and right in the heart of Hampstead. It doesn't have a sixth form but they can automatically transfer to Canonbury (unless they have burnt the school down or something!). They also do a few subjects that most other schools don't do, e.g. photography. They do not do RE formally at all and kids don't have to choose a humanity for GCSE if they don't want. The boys and girls really seem to get along well and the staff seem pretty good. It's not the highest status or for the super competitive types but I think it's quite unique. DD of course would pull a face if she read this but she's pretty happy there, doing well and has made some good friends, both boys and girls.

[AgonyBeetle]

I’m trying to think of a primary school in the area you describe that is really poor, and drawing a blank. Obviously they’re not in the business of preparing children for selective schools, but dc from local primary schools do every year get places at state and private selective schools.

So it’s probably worth being very honest with yourself about what you want from a school. The very selective private schools do offer something different from what you’d get in a state secondary. Outside that elite group it’s much less clear what you’re paying for, so it’s important to think clearly about your expectations.

As others have said, Parliament Hill is a great school which regularly gets a good-sized cohort of girls coming out with strings of A* in addition to getting good outcomes for girls of all abilities. Acland Burghley has had a tricky few years but is also increasingly sought-after. And depending on where you are, Camden Girls’ catchment now extends to at least part of that area.

I can’t see any reason for going to a second-tier private school if you can get into any of those tbh.

[HopscotchShots]

I’m trying to think of a primary school in the area you describe that is really poor, and drawing a blank. Obviously they’re not in the business of preparing children for selective schools, but dc from local primary schools do every year get places at state and private selective schools.

Child doesn't live in the area, or attend school in the area. It's one of the worst performing primaries in London, but it's not in N6! Not that Ofsted is all a school is about, but...

I'm also worried about Parliament Hill as I am unsure of the rules regarding children moving into the Borough in their final year of primary and how to apply for secondary.

Anyway, thank you very much for all the suggestions, it's been really helpful and I will look through them.

[QGMum]

My dd goes to one of those non-elite private schools that agonybeetle refers to as “second tier”. We chose this for her over a highly oversubscribed state school. She went to state primary so we’ve experience of both sectors. State is an alternative to be considered but here’s why we are happy to pay:

1. Smaller class sizes meaning teachers know her and work to improve her in weak areas and stretch her in strong areas. School has very high value-added scores.
   
2. School has high academic expectations so she’s forced to work hard and do her best. She would happily coast at a large comp and no-one would realise she was capable of more.
   
3. No low level classroom disruption.
   
4. More focus on art, drama and music. State schools can’t afford this.
   
5. More opportunities for extra-curricular clubs and activities and she can actually get a place. These exist at state schools but are usually over-subscribed.
   
6. For my dd a smaller school is better for her socially. She doesn’t feel lost, but feels part of a school community.

[HootenannyHouse]

Mill Hill might suit perfectly. I'm assuming this is a child that will be changing which parent she loves with? You will still need to do some tutoring for her to pass the 11+ for Mill Hill. There is an eleven plus forum with lots of info. I wouldn't send her without getting her used to the format and the types of questions asked. There isn't any school I can think of that is truly non selective in north london at secondary. It's a continuum of selectivity.

[MrsMarigold]

If I were in your shoes I'd chose Northbridge House for Secondary School, I met some of the teachers and was so impressed. Interestingly, I don't think that many from the junior school go onto the senior school.

[Davros]

I'm with QGMum on our choice of "second tier" independent school. For DD I see it as a strength of the school. DD went from NBH prep with a good number of her peers and they were joined by a good number from elsewhere, a good mix imo.

[AgonyBeetle]

For the record I wasn’t suggesting that people shouldn’t choose independent schools, but that if you do choose one of those schools it’s worth being very clear in your own mind about why you are choosing that specific school over the many good state options.

I’ve come across a significant number of parents who opted for some of the schools mentioned here purely on the basis of assuming that because they were paying it must somehow be better. We’re all now coming out the other side of the secondary school process, and several of the private school parents are a bit wrong-footed about the fact that their dc’s state-educated peers have achieved very similar and sometimes better outcomes at the end of it all.

Which is fine if money is no object and you were paying for a better experience in some way (smaller classes etc), but it’s a mistake to assume that the end result will be significantly different than if you hadn’t gone the private route.

[Davros]

For us it isn't just about "results" in terms of cold hard grades. It's more about the overall experience with good results and access to subjects not well covered elsewhere. I also think DD would have struggled in a much larger environment and we were lucky to have a choice.

[HopscotchShots]

I'm assuming this is a child that will be changing which parent she loves with?

Sort of. It's complicated (and I don't want to describe the situation in full as I am aware some schools read this boards). However, I really value everyone's suggestions and advice - thank you. I had no idea you were meant to apply before the end of Year 5 for instance until yesterday for some schools.

The most important aspect is that the school fits the child, and the child can catch up on some lost learning, but still has a range of opportunities at the end, and is not necessarily guided down a path that is for those who are academic.

[NWgirls]

AgonyBeetle:

Yes - but the "be clear what you pay for" also applies at the top end of the ability spectrum. The fact that a very high ability child gets a load of A stars etc at a "top tier" independent does not necessarily mean that it was value added - compared with e.g. Henrietta Barnett/Tiffin, a comp, or what the same child would have achieved at a "second tier" independent.

If you equate "second tier" (in terms of academic results) with "second rate" you are taking a dangerous logical shortcut. The main reason for (academically) top tier schools doing so well is their intake - you cannot know e.g. teaching quality just by observing results. And for a particular child, "fit" can be crucial - picking school by league table is very risky. Yes, results matter for the child, but whether the school average is 90 percent A stars vs 50 or 30 is not the main point.

Paying does not increase any child's underlying ability - obviously... although some of your friends seem to have forgotten this But it does give access to schools where the resources/spend per head is typically more than twice of the level at state schools. (Possibly still worth checking out the local state options and take note of the Progress 8 stats, though.)

OP: I think the list on this thread is sensible, at least if coed is a preference for you (is it?).

• NBH is relatively easy to get into, and has a down to earth feel. Takes quite a lot from state primaries. For-profit. Must move schools on at 16, at which point I believe many go to state 6th forms. (Davros will know, just my impression)
  
• King Alfred must be visited and is easy to fall in love with, but is perhaps not suitable for kids who need to be pushed quite hard (little pressure, lots of freedom, carrot rather than stick - might be fantastic for the right child). Small and oversuscribed intake at 11, select mostly based on team exercises (cooperative, positive etc) - so not easy to predict - an unusual approach, wide range. Early process and deadline - very irritating!
  
• Mill Hill/Belmont I know less about, but know one moderately unhappy DC there (but one datapoint is not enough!). Have to change from Belmont to MH at 13. My sense (from a distance) is that they take mostly second quartile of the ability range - so not very difficult, but still selective.

[Davros]

NBH Hampstead has no sixth form but NBH Canonbury does and they can transfer there with little difficulty, it's a short train ride from Hampstead heath.
I'm not too well informed about where else they go as DD is currently in Year 10. I know a few have gone to MPW (not for us I think!), Fine Arts which is a possibility due to subjects offered, location and it's impressive in RL. A couple left to go to a posh boarding school but only last one and a half terms! Quite a few seem to go on to Jewish schools (presumably state). I have seen a suggested list, all pretty obvious and mundane imo!
I fell in love with King Alfred but it wasn't right for DD, not enough structure, and she didn't get a place anyway. I really wished they could add more structure and move up the hill into Hampstead, which basically describes NBH!

[AgonyBeetle]

NWGirls - yes, absolutely that logic applies at the higher end too. Which is why all mine went to comps with distinctly average overall results, but where the top achievers got grades as good as they could have got anywhere.

But I think it's easier to see that the top selective schools (particularly private ones because, funding) are offering something that is distinctively different from what most state schools can offer - very fast pace, highly-selective intake, wide range of challenging subject choices, in addition to the facilities and extra-curricular etc etc.

Outside that premier league I think it's less clear what the added value is that your school fees are buying. Taht's not to say there isn't added value in terms of smaller classes, better support, wider subject choices (the wider range of languages on offer is one of the few things that gives me a slight twinge of wishing my dc had that available to them), better facilities, competitive sport, etc. And any of those might be a reasonable tie-breaker for a family weighing up their options.

But I have come across lots of people who went for the private option because they assumed that it would buy them something better than the state option, without I think really defining for themselves what they meant by 'better'. Sometimes they've come from overseas where the systems are very different, sometimes it's families who have always used private education and I think probably unconsciously assumed all state schools were like Grange Hill. A few very honest people have admitted to me that with hindsight they could have saved the money because their dc would have done just as well (or badly) at the local state school. Others are very defensive about the choices they made even as they sound off about how disappointed they are with the end result. And I'm sure there are others who are delighted with their choice and think it was worth all the £££ and angst.

The point I was making really is that if you're looking at private schools in an area that also has a range of good state schools which produce a regular stream of dc with strings of top grades and places at top universities, it makes sense to look closely at all the available options and be very clear in your own mind what the added value is that you're hoping to obtain by paying fees.

[Davros]

We certainly knew what we were letting ourselves in for as we both went to London independent schools - DH went to Highgate and I went to Notting Hill & Ealing High. I agree that some parents who don't have first hand experience of independent education have some expectations and criticisms that we find odd and are often status and results fixated. Less so at NBH in our experience because some look down on it, fine by me!

[NWgirls]

AgonyBeetle: Agree 100%. We are looking at both sectors for DD2 and are awaiting the 1 March state option: Our top one or two state schools would trump our favourite independent unless DD2 has a complete meltdown and wins the argument, which might happen with family finances being the main reason.

Davros: Sorry to put you on the spot there, but yes it seems NBH Hampstead kids go to quite a wide range of 6th forms, with Canonbury as a "banker" option. The school does not seem very transparent about destinations at 16 (unlike at 11, from the prep), so not easy to know. (My own impression was based on the former head mentioning a raft of private and state schools including Camden School for Girls at an open day a few years ago, when she got a question about this.)

[Iwantawhippet]

Has Portland Place bee mentioned?