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What actually happens if a child becomes permanetly excluded from school?

(32 Posts)
WhenTheDragonsCame Wed 16-Mar-16 14:02:22

DD1 (14) was suspended yesterday for the second time yesterday for refusing to attend detention on Friday. In a meeting this morning she was told that if she truants class again (the reason for the detention) she will have to stay after school that evening for 45. If she refuses she will get another fixed term exclusion. After 6 occurances of this she will possibly be permanently excluded.

I have just had a call to say that she truanted a lesson today and if she refuses to go to detention it will result in another exclusion, meaning she would be half way to permanently being excluded.

I have looked at the government website but wanted an idea of what actually would happen in this instance.

Until she moved to the new school in september she had issues but nothing like this. The school have said that if she didn't pick the friends she has they do not believe that she would be behaving like this. They also think that she is very immature and doesn't (possibly isn't able to) think of the concequences of her actions.

Thank you.

insan1tyscartching Wed 16-Mar-16 14:17:58

What seems to happen here is a child is moved to another local school sometimes following a spell at a pupil referral unit. A girl in dd's class began y7 with her was excluded and went to the other secondary local to us, was excluded again, went to a pupil referral unit then to a third secondary school where she was excluded again. She started back at dd's school a year after she had been excluded and now two months later she is very part time and on the verge of being excluded again. I'd expect that she will be placed in the independent BESD school next unless they try the local state special school which is nowadays a dumping ground for the difficult children.
If your dd is following her friends could the school move her to a different form?In dd's school they sometimes move children to one of the opposite houses which means they rarely come in contact with the people the school want them away from.

Bluebonnie Wed 16-Mar-16 14:24:22

Is this a Local Authority maintained school? if so, and a permanent exclusion does take place, the LA should find this pupil a place at another of its schools, and swap another child into the previous school.

Did you really want to know about appeals, PRUs etc?
It sounds as if there may have been a previous managed move - is that right?
We could do with some more information, to give sensible advice and info.

WhenTheDragonsCame Wed 16-Mar-16 14:32:34

It is a fairly small school, about 600 students, so i think it will be very difficult to keep them apart. They weren't in the same lesson today but they just decide to go off together. The school say when the girls are confronted DD1's friend gets quite mouthy but DD1 just goes quiet.

She is grounded and doesn't have internet access for the foreseeable future. Not sure what else i can do. The two nearest schools are either catholic or in special measures with the threat of closure.

WhenTheDragonsCame Wed 16-Mar-16 14:38:44

She changed schools because we moved to a different city. Her behaviour wasn't perfect at the old school but nothing like this.

Her school is a state all girls school. She is in year 9 and just picked her gcse options. If she is excluded i will not appeal so i don't need any information about that thank you.

titchy Wed 16-Mar-16 14:51:17

Can you ask the school to arrange a visit for her and you to the nearest PRU? Might scare her enough to pull her socks off. Might backfire of course....

WhenTheDragonsCame Wed 16-Mar-16 15:09:03


She has been told what will happen but maybe if she actually saw it for herself it would have more effect.

FannyFanakapan Wed 16-Mar-16 15:22:21

My son was excluded, and went to a PRU before going on to his new school.

First, take a look at schools behaviour policy. Does it state that they will exclude for persistent truanting? I would think a call into your school's Education Welfare Officer would be in order, to discuss how you might help your DD.

Second, if excluded, please appeal through the School Exclusion Project - who are really rather brilliant and free. A "baby barrister" may take on your case and run the appeal for you.

I would avoid the PRU if you can. The staff are fantastic, the support brilliant - but your child will be mixing with kids who have some really challenging behaviours in and out of school. DS got mixed up in a lot of crap - drugs, shoplifting etc.

Id also start considering a managed move, as an alternative to exclusion. Again, the EWO might be able to advise you of an alternative school that might be better suited, and may be able to facilitate a move.

FannyFanakapan Wed 16-Mar-16 15:27:15

also, the PRU will not necessarily be able to cover all the GCSE options your DD wants. At my sons PRU, they would do fun stuff after lunch - the kids were not all able to follow the very academic curriculum, so afternoons were for PE, cooking, DJ-ing, trips out, more arty subjects. They also knocked off at 2pm.

It all looks very cool from the outside looking in. But after a couple of weeks, DS did realise that he wanted more, and actually had a future to consider. It can be all very nihilistic in a PRU.

TeenAndTween Wed 16-Mar-16 17:07:05

I would be asking your school whether they think a managed move to another school would be helpful before she gets to permanent exclusion stage.

minifingerz Wed 16-Mar-16 17:37:29

My dd's school made a decision not to escalate punishment when she was truanting/refusing to do homework/refusing to attend detentions, because they wanted to avoid excluding her. I think this slightly took the wind out of dd's sails. They actually said "We will NOT exclude you" to her.

In my dd's case there were fairly major emotional and psychiatric issues, and the school supported us to keep her in school until she had finished her GCSE's (though she only ended up sitting a few). I'll never stop being grateful to them for this.

Perhaps you need to explore whether there is more to your dd's behaviour than sheer immaturity and maybe see if the school can consider it too. For my dd the next move would have been a pupil referral unit. sad

WhenTheDragonsCame Wed 16-Mar-16 17:41:18

She did go to detention today so no exclusion thankfully. They are going to fill out a form or something (I can't remember what it is called but it is too assess her needs) and see if she needs extra support.

I am concerned that if she was forced to move school now (by me rather than being excluded) she would end up worse because she was angry. She doesn't want to leave the school.

It is frustrating as her report says for 5 lessons today she fully met her targets and 1 lesson she didn't. I received an email on Monday saying last week she concentrated and worked hard but didn't even turn up to that lesson today.

WhenTheDragonsCame Wed 16-Mar-16 17:53:17

minifingerz my DD was on a school action plus plan from year 2 and has had numerous interventions since including CAMHS, multiple support agency, learning mentors, counselling and parent partnership classes!

Her learning mentor in year 6 thought that she could possibly have a learning difficulties but her last secondary school didn't think so. She saw a speech and language therapist for a possible processing problem (the report seemed to highlight concerns but the school said her cognitive ability was low for everything).

minifingerz Wed 16-Mar-16 18:19:50

My dd has also been under CAMHS, and had multiple agency support. I think schools excluding children with learning and mental health needs because of truanting and failing to turn up to detentions is awful. State schools are supposed to be inclusive. My dd's school was a community school, not an academy. I think this made a difference.

WhenTheDragonsCame Wed 16-Mar-16 18:34:23

The thing with my DD is that there isn't a diagnosis for anything so the school just think she is naughty. I don't know maybe that is all it is.

Her school isn't an academy either. I think they are hoping that by taking a hardline she will improve, i am not entirely convinced.

minifingerz Wed 16-Mar-16 19:34:50

My dd didn't had a diagnosis of depression and anxiety but nothing else. (She has a more complex diagnosis now she's at college).

WhenTheDragonsCame Wed 16-Mar-16 19:48:48

camhs thought it was all emotional and recommended counselling. She does tend to over eat (10 yoghurts in 48 hours for example)

If she gets another exclusion i will speak to them about changing schools. I did mention it a while ago but she really doesn't want to and with her changing last year i would feel quite guilty.

boredofusername Thu 17-Mar-16 10:02:35

What is the school doing to support her? It can't all be stick and no carrot.

Exclusion is not going to help her is it - if you are truanting, it's effectively giving the child what they want. Or what they think they want. She says she doesn't want to leave the school she's in, which I'd say is a positive? The truanting doesn't adversely affect the other kids either - it's not like she's being disruptive in class.

Is there really no way of keeping the girls apart? Could some other girls be asked to take her under their wing and keep her on the straight and narrow?

For what it's worth I don't think denying internet access at home will do much to change anything.

admission Thu 17-Mar-16 20:54:46

I think that you need to get the school to say in writing what they are going to do. I will be very surprised if they say much more of not attending detention / truancy and we will exclude permanently because they are not really in a position to do that legally until they have done far more to try and stop this poor behaviour.
The current regs in exclusion is the 2012 document and this was very much cut down in detail (which was a shame). The previous document from September 2008 does in paragraph 26 have a list of reasons for which exclusion would not be appropriate and one of those is lateness or truancy. Only when the situation became persistent could the school claim that the pupil was refusing to co-operate with staff and start to lead towards exclusions.
The reasons why a pupil can be excluded are
In response to a serious breach or persistent breaches of the school's behaviour policy and where allowing the pupil to remain in school would seriously harm the education or welfare of the pupil or others in the school.

Luna9 Thu 17-Mar-16 23:29:27

You said she tends to over eat? Have you checked her thyroid? Other blood test to make sure her health is in order; this may not be the problem but it can help to know that she is fit and healthy.

Also; if she doesn't want to change schools could you tell her that if she has one more suspension you will change schools.

NynaevesSister Fri 18-Mar-16 11:06:07

What Admissions said. In addition the school would need to show that they had done everything possible to help your daughter before resorting to a permanent exclusion.

As also said here get everything in writing even if that is just you taking notes in a call or meeting and then emailing the school to say that this is a recap of your call/meeting and if they disagree or see any inaccuracies please respond immediately via email.

Keep hard copies of all correspondence and make a not of date and time and content for every contact you have with the school. Even if it is just a two sentance chat with her form tutor.

Should it go to an exclusion hearing you then have evidence to present to the panel showing your support of the school and your daughter. It also avoids any he said/she said conversations.

It is difficult because what the school may say can be different to what a parent understands. This is why I would say that you follow up every conversation no matter how small with an email, even if it is just bullet points.

It will also make a great frame of reference for yourself as this will undoubtedly be very emotional and it is exceptionally difficult to process information when you are emotional.

WhenTheDragonsCame Fri 18-Mar-16 18:09:38

Thank you all for your replies.

As far as i can see there is no carrot just stick.

I have had lots of emails from the school and most thank me for the support i am giving them.

Well things have got worse. This morning she smoked weed on the way to school and turned up stoned! The school have excluded her for a week and warned that if it happens again she will be permanently excluded and the police will be notified.

She just can't see why what she did was wrong. I asked the head if moving her now would be best rather than wait for the decision to be takem out of our hands and she said she can't tell me to do that. I took that to mean yes please.

I will make an appointment at the doctors, though she has had issues with eating since she was in nappies.

Thank you.

BeaufortBelle Sun 20-Mar-16 18:02:01

It's pretty clear that she needs a full psychiatric assessment. I think you need to see your GP and really press for it. Can you pay for it privately if you have to?

WhenTheDragonsCame Sun 20-Mar-16 20:12:18

I will phone the doctor and social services tomorrow. My parents have offered to pay for an activity to try and keep her out of trouble so i think they would help out if i needed it.

Independentandproud Sun 20-Mar-16 21:11:08

I feel for you both, she sounds like she is struggling and that cannot be easy for you either. Get her to the GP or some nhs places have drop ins for teens. Good luck.

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