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Newstead wood 2015 cut off

(41 Posts)
Buttercups2 Mon 02-Mar-15 19:33:01

Anyone know what the cut-off may be for Newstead Wood this year and how we find out whether our DD made the waiting list and where she may be on it?

DD passed 11+ for Bexley and passed Newstead test just above historic cut off but no grammar place offered, got 3rd choice which is a state comp!

When DH and I sat 11+ as a children it actually meant something!


Well done if your DD got in though! Would you share your DD score so we can ascertain where we may be?

Thanks x

judecaswall Mon 02-Mar-15 20:10:47

just thought I'd let you know my daughter scored 223 last year was 9th on waiting list and got a place offered by easter. She is really happy there.
Good luck

Buttercups, the elevenplusexams forum may have a local section for your area which has this year's cut offs.

Buttercups2 Wed 04-Mar-15 09:00:51

Thanks Judecaswell !
Have had a letter stating cut off was just above her and 6 points higher than last year!

But I have heard that this can come down gradually between March and September due to natural movement on the waiting list ..... Here's hoping!

DD desperately wants to go to a Grammar school and feels cheated!

Terrible thing that a child can pass 11+ but the LEA fail them by not providing adequate places at a Grammar . So damaging to a child's sense of worth !

Cross doesn't come close....

tiggytape Wed 04-Mar-15 09:12:03

Buttercups - unfortunately it is the same in many 11+ regions. There is a score which counts as a pass but then usually a higher score (sometimes much higher score) that is the difference between being offered a place and being added to the waiting list. More children are of selective ability than there are places in grammar schools.

LAs are not allowed to open more grammar schools yet more and more now apply to them. Some of this is the increased birth rate but some is due to families being unable to afford private schooling where once they would opt for that and people being more willing to travel to access grammar schools outside their own areas. It makes competition for the few places that much greater and some bright children therefore cannot be admitted.

As you say though, waiting list places do come up. People move away due to work. Some who have been offered grammar schools have also been offered scholarships to private schools which may prompt them to reject their grammar school offer. In a couple of weeks time, you will know more about the number of rejections and places available to be reallocated. The waiting list movement will continue through the summer and beyond so there is still hope.

Buttercups2 Wed 04-Mar-15 10:11:48

Thanks Tiggytape

I realise that there will be numerous other disappointed children, I have worked in FE&HE for over 20yrs so I have seen a lot of young people as they reach the end of the state system. Thus I know first hand the disparity in children (and young adults) learning abilities.
Specialised subject schools and Academies at Secondary level are on the increase but what about providing increased opportunities for those that are more Academic 11+?
Secondary comprehensives do not offer sufficient 'streaming' in all subjects thus my DD (and many others!) will be sat in lessons bored and switching off, whilst waiting for their less able peers to catch up.
This is bad for every pupil in the class! In an environment where everyone in the class has passed a selective exam a child will thrive, likewise a class aimed at the appropriate academic level for all children will be far more rewarding to a non 11+ pupil who would then not feel less able than others in their class and thus thrive also!

I fail to see the sense in not allowing LEA's to increase Grammar school provision?
It's simply 'lazy' Education policy.

Rant over!

uilen Wed 04-Mar-15 11:00:20

I fail to see the sense in not allowing LEA's to increase Grammar school provision?

Because many people don't agree with grammar schools. It is not lazy policy - grammars are controversial. You might feel very differently if your child hadn't passed at all.

Secondary comprehensives do not offer sufficient 'streaming' in all subjects thus my DD (and many others!) will be sat in lessons bored and switching off, whilst waiting for their less able peers to catch up.

This is your opinion but not one that everybody shares. A child who passed but didn't make the cutoff for a place is unlikely to be miles ahead of everybody else. There are also many comprehensives in which low, middle and high achievers do extremely well (by national standards) without steaming being used.

Buttercups2 Wed 04-Mar-15 11:40:54

"Because many people don't agree with grammar schools. It is not lazy policy - grammars are controversial. You might feel very differently if your child hadn't passed at all."
And likewise very few parents would choose to put their children in for 11+ if they thought their child wouldn't pass!
So this "controversial" opinion is your own and not shared by everyone.
The fact is my DD did pass (with high scores!) as did many others who have not gained anything from this exercise.

As an experienced educator I can confidently state that children of varied ability able thrive better in classes of like ability peers. It does not benefit one who is less able to be knocked back in confidence by brighter class members, nor does it benefit a more academic child to be in an environment with less able peers.
No-one does their best in such environments.

I'm sorry if your child did not pass the 11+ but life is full of tests..... Or perhaps we should forget all exams and just keep everyone down regardless of ability..... That would be great for society I'm sure.

uilen Wed 04-Mar-15 11:55:54

Actually my own children are placed several years above their age group because they are so far ahead and don't attend state schools so I don't have a vested interested in this. My own children would almost certainly get into the most superselective grammar schools.

Grammar schools are controversial in UK society - I don't how you can deny this. Political parties don't have a policy of reintroducing or expanding grammars for this reason.

As an experienced educator, with experience from many countries, I don't accept that grammars are the only way to cater for bright children and making up to 80% of children go to secondary moderns on the basis of one morning of non-tutor proof tests aged 10/11 is just crazy. Again, there are non-selective schools in which high achievers do very, very well despite no streaming or setting being used in year 7, and setting for maths etc only being introduced in year 8 onwards. Not streaming does not mean that there are no sets.

Buttercups2 Wed 04-Mar-15 12:37:57

My OP was asking for advice with regard to a particular school and a conversational reply to the earlier responder.

I find your last post to be so full of hypocrisy that this discussion is clearly going no where.

Shame as I thought you may have had some valid parental experience in this field but clearly not.

ChlorinePerfume Fri 06-Mar-15 20:48:40

What I don't understand OP is that you say your child passed the Bexley 11+ but your child was bit offered a place at a GS. So does this mean you applied for 1 specific GS or did you apply for all 3. Townley has been undersubscribed for many years and have filled up places with girls who just missed the pass mark.

daddypaulo Sat 07-Mar-15 00:11:36

Dear Buttercups, I really feel your anxiety but would recommend that you just hang in there. I have a friend who has a daughter in year 7 at Newstead and I'm told that once the 2nd and 3rd round offers are complete, most girls who scored above the historic pass mark get offered a place. I know of one girl, who is 75th on the waiting list, with a 214 score - so if your DD is in the 220's you have a good chance. Many people take offers from other schools and free up places.

On another note, I have no idea why uilen is ranting here. The gaping hole in her argument is that she has opted out of the system. She pays for a decent education because the State does not meet her children's needs. Therefore she has no right to comment.

fionaf Sat 07-Mar-15 08:36:21

Good luck with the waiting list, we are due to go through this next year. Every child is different and each parent knows where they will thrive best. My DD wasn't thriving in an all ability primary so our only choice was to continue where she was getting bored and disillusioned, home educate or go private. We did the latter as no other choice was the best and that meant huge sacrifices including having people renting a spare room, our dining room being turned into a bedroom too and renting that out, so not a decision taken lightly. We don't have the funds to do this at secondary so dismissing someone's opinion just because they have opted out isn't always fair. They are usually trying to do the best for their child.

As another poster states waiting lists are quite fluid so hang in there.

Also some independents offer 100% bursaries (sadly not at primary ;)), they have intakes at 13 which if things don't work out you might consider. I appreciate some people morally object to independent education, but put this down as another thing to consider.

Good luck.

cauchy Sat 07-Mar-15 09:03:09

Actually I don't think I (as uilen) was ranting - the original poster was ranting that her child didn't get a place despite passing the grammar test and that LAs should open more grammars. In my view, if you put your child in for a selective school, knowing full well that a majority of children won't get in, then it isn't very reasonable to complain later that your child didn't make the cutoff to get in.

And just because I have children in independent education doesn't mean I don't have a right to comment - I would personally be more likely to send my children to state secondaries in an areas with no grammars, and I see every day in my outreach work the damage that secondary moderns cause.

fionaf Sat 07-Mar-15 09:28:32

I note from the elevenplusforum mentioned above that someone was offered Newstead with 225, so with 224 you are almost certain to get Newstead in the next round. I saw also that Sid & Chis only came out about 4 miles, a big difference from previous years. I am in Petts Wood so Newstead is actually our closest Secondary school but that doesn't make any difference.

Pooka Sat 07-Mar-15 09:45:58

Many comprehensive schools do set very adequately.

Dd is at a comprehensive in bromley where all or almost all the top maths set got level 6 in their maths SATS. The top English set all got 5b or above. Certainly in maths there is sufficient challenge for a girl who totally aced the level 6 maths paper. Being 8 form intake or above, and not in a true grammar area (only superselective NW) means that there is a genuinely broad spread of abilities which suits subject setting pretty well and is workable.

Conversely, I have friends with girls in the newstead wood year 7 cohort and have heard that the head is keen to change the test format because it's inadequate in terms of selecting top ability children. The newstead results are not as good as st olaves, which has a broader test and doesn't simply rarely on blunt NVR and VR results. I also know that they don't set at all in year 7 at newstead, and that there are girls there who have every right to a place given they performed well in the test, but who arrived with high level 4 SATS and who have targets lower than those of girls in dd's maths class.

Because there isn't significant top-slicing, the comprehensives do not suffer from a lack of range of abilities. I am aware that this is not necessarily the case in grammar school areas.

Pooka Sat 07-Mar-15 09:47:00

rely rather than rarely.

debjud Sat 07-Mar-15 10:50:59

fwiw - DD achieved 3 A*'s A level at her v average comp.(plus several others who got mixtures of A*'s and A's) - now at RG uni. She was a late bloomer - at age 10 she didn't get into local selective. No tutoring, mixed ability classes mainly.

PanelChair Sun 08-Mar-15 00:17:35

Newstead Wood is too far away to be an option for us. They don't (as I understand it) set for any subject "as all the girls are by definition top set material", according to one parent I spoke to. And yet I've heard of girls there getting Cs at GCSEs, which of course isn't terrible at all but seems at odds with being a super selective.

ChlorinePerfume Tue 10-Mar-15 13:29:00

We looked at Newstead, many moons ago with DD1 and I have to say that I was not impressed with the school. There was so much dust on the PE equipment you could write on it. When I said that they had a lovely field backing on to the school they said that they were not allowed to use it because it did not belong to the school.
The girls who showed us around said that the school opened at a certain time (can't remember what it was tbh) and that they were not allowed in school before that time. When I pointed out to the girls that the opening times for the canteen stated opening time 15 minutes earlier than the said opening time for the school our tour guides went totally blank. These girls may have been very good at passing tests but they could not think on their feet and did not come across as bright imo.

We only sat Newstead as a backup in case she had a bad day in the Bexley test and she had a high enough score. It was just not for us.

Buttercups2 Tue 10-Mar-15 23:22:48

Hi everyone

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I feel reassured by many, I know good secondary Comprehensives do exist as I went to one a lifetime ago..... However as DD sat and passed 11+ in both Bromley and Bexley we had hoped (perhaps too much) for a grammar place. However our current offer is for an 'outstanding' Bromley comp but even so not our first or second choice..... So I think it's only human to be disappointed .

We have heard that NW cut off can lower as the summer progresses, however we also put Townley as DD was so impressed by it and was most likely the only Beckey one that we had a chance of getting in....

So no, Townley is no longer undersubscribed as of this year! It actually now has a waiting list too!

We will wait and see what happens. I realise that kids who want to learn will do well wherever they are, I am just disappointed in a system that is not adequately serviced in available places year on year yet still dangles the carrot.

Keep posting ! Rants and all ! It keeps us all engaging and opening up to each others opinions.... Ulien you too! wink

Buttercups2 Tue 10-Mar-15 23:24:46

Bexley not Beckey - annoying autocorrect error!

Buttercups2 Tue 10-Mar-15 23:35:41

Thanks for your support!
And yes DD is in the 220 ranks for NW so in the 30's on the list so we'll see.
We've yet to find out where she maybe on Townleys list....

Such fun smile

fleurdelacourt Thu 12-Mar-15 10:48:38

2 girls from our school got into Newstead in May last year - the waiting list does move a lot between now and September so if you're just a few points off, then hang in there!

Haroldhadrada Sun 15-Mar-15 10:54:52

The fact that Townley currently has a waiting list doesn't mean that it won't be undersubscribed by the end of the academic year. Townley always has a waiting list at the point of the first round of offers but by the end of the summer term, once all the shuffling has finished, it still has places to fill, which then go to girls who have just missed out on the pass mark.

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