Godolphin / NHEHS entrance exams

[rosesandlillies]

Hi, does anyone know what marks we would need to achieve in practice papers for a realistic chance of passing the exam? Thanks

[NWgirls]

I have the same question. Examples of girls getting offers at these (or similar) schools despite not doing terribly well when practicing at home (on past NL consortium exam papers), with rough percentages of points achieved, would be much appreciated.

[HanneHolm]

AFAIK Godolphin are WAY under their numbers so you have a pretty good chance of getting in

[NWgirls]

Hanne: Are you talking about application numbers for this year (relative to previous years)? Or test results relative to NHEHS??

[HanneHolm]

no idea wtf NHEHS is

[MrsSteptoe]

Notting Hill and Ealing High, I think, HanneHolm

[Londinium]

Hanne. Are you thinking of the Godolphin in Wiltshire somewhere or the London one? It would be v.surprising if the London school had fewer applicants!

[MiniMonty]

For Godolphin and Latymer you'll need to be consistently hitting close to 100% for a chance of a place.

Massively oversubscribed school (God alone knows why) and "selective" means the top three or four percent are offered places.

If you're into spending money, get DC into a state school anywhere in Richmond borough and spend it supporting her through the next seven years - you and she will do better - and she will have a 78% better chance of an Oxbridge outcome (no joke - check the numbers).

[TheCrimsonQueen]

To the comment "god alone knows why". I am an old Dolphin and loved every minute of my time there. The school, the teachers, the ethos, the pastoral care all outstanding.

The girls I went to school with were all kind, intelligent, determined and have become friends for life. Maybe that's why it is oversubscribed.

[rosesandlillies]

Really all close to 100%?? I was told most don't finish the paper and that there are questions beyond expectation to test for scholarship places at the same time .... Also the head clearly said at the open day that they combine the exam, interview and school ref to get a rounded picture of each candidate..... Maybe I am being hopeful.

[Shootingatpigeons]

Roses One of those final questions, which are more tests of lateral thinking rather than Maths had several of my friends (with Masters degrees in Maths etc.) at it for 24 hours trying to work it out I think Monty has an agenda , and completely misses the point that it is the individual who gets into Oxbridge and will stand the same chance if they go to a good school, state or private. Nor do only the top 3% get in, top 3% of what? At all these schools you get many girls sitting than there are places available, but then each of those girls are sitting three or more, and some of those girls get into them all. They not only offer more places than they have, (sometimes ending up with an extra class if the level of acceptances is unexpectedly high) but the waiting lists can move as well.

My DD sat a few years ago so I couldn't help you with absolute percentages but I didn't get the impression it was a first past the post exercise. It certainly isn't at the other very selective London day schools. They look at the evidence they have from the papers, reference and interview to make a judgement about strengths and weaknesses, potential and whether they are a good fit for the school. They obviously will have a level of performance below which they feel a candidate will just be too behind, but aside from SPGS these schools use the Upper Thirds (Year 7) to consolidate and get everyone up to the same level, so those from state schools who were not heavily tutored can (and do) catch up.

My DD came from an overseas school that was equivalent to a good state school, and didn't prepare them, so I sympathise with being unsure about what is expected, but she did get in (but went elsewhere), with just a terms preparation of maybe an hour twice a week. It was the practise in time management and exam technique, making sure she had covered those things in the curriculum she hadn't yet covered at school and practising problems that applied what she knew in new ways (together with some lateral thinking puzzles) that were the most useful preparation.

[rosesandlillies]

Shooting - thank you for taking the time to reply, v kind of you and has put my mind at rest. My DD has worked so hard to prepare for the exam (having come from state primary with tutoring by me only!)and has a wonderful attitude so I am happy that she will do well wherever she ends up, that said I know she has her heart set on godolphin so would love her to get what she deserves but if it's not meant to be ....... Thank you for your insight

[Shootingatpigeons]

Good luck to her roses especially if it feels to her like the right school. Sadly I think people forget that these schools want girls who have ability, and they are pretty good at spotting it, so that training them to the test as if they were horses in a race for the best mark misses the point somewhat. I do know for sure that they know the difference between identical marks obtained by not making silly errors in the earlier questions in the paper versus making all sorts of stupid mistakes, misreading questions etc. in the early questions but then cracking the more difficult ones The interview is important too, and I am sure your DDs enthusiasm will shine through.

[Shootingatpigeons]

I wonder why hanneholm blundered into the thread with dodgy advice when they had no clue what NHEHS was, bit rich to then come back with expletives when asked a reasonable clarifying question

[blackwattle]

MiniMonty doesn't seem to know what he is talking about. If only the top 3-4% get offered a place, that would mean that G&L has about 2500 girls sitting the exam which is about 3 times more than they actually have. So, I think he is the one who should be checking the numbers.

As for the 100% on the specimen papers, well that's ridiculous too. Rosesandlillies, please don't worry about inaccurate information like this. I know for a fact that many students don't finish the papers and they certainly don't get everything they attempt correct either.

Have you been marking the papers yourself or have you had someone marking them for you? The maths is fairly easy to work out whether the answer is right or wrong. The English is a little trickier and if your daughter is at a state school, she may not have been shown all of the tricks and techniques. PM me if you want more info.

[Belltree]

This is a very odd thread. Do we take it that HanneHolm was talking about the other Godolphin?

Anyway, my DD got into Godolphin a couple of years ago and she was certainly not scoring 100% on her practice papers. Sadly I don't think there is a definitive answer to your question, OP, hard as it is to live with the uncertainty. So much depends on the others on the day. All we can do is put our faith in the idea that they all end up in the right place, even if it wasn't Plan A...

[rosesandlillies]

Thank you all for your helpful posts. Yes I have been marking maths and then she has a tutor for English who runs through the paper. With her and they mark together. Thank you for the offer Black and will pm you and thank you Shooting and Bell for kind and helpful posts. Roll on Feb when it's all over!!

[irisha]

Roses, I am not sure how helpful my views will be given that we are also going through the process so no past wisdom, but for what it's worth - I think if you are getting 85%, you are a slam dunk. And 70-80% is a pretty good chance too.

Where does this conclusion come from? I have actually done 5 maths papers under timed conditions - I have finished on time, but only just! I have done a highly quantitative subject at university (although not maths) so I am very comfortable with maths, but for some questions, I had to pause and think. And obviously as an adult you don't make silly mistakes, work much faster, often see the method to use immediately, etc. Based on the above, I would be extremely surprised if there were more than a handful of 10-11 year old girls (if any!) who finish the maths paper AND do all the tasks right. English is obviously less measurable, but again if she finishes practice papers on time and answers have reasonable depths, you should be fine. English is more of an anxiety for us, because DD is bilingual, borderline dyslexic, and not a voracious reader. Plus very analytical so writing about "how the character feels" in great depth is a bit of an issue, but for any "normal" bright girl, English paper should not present a particular challenge.

Also, as shootingatpigeons said, girls sit for 4-5 schools but will only take one place. So a girl who is offered G&L, would often have LEH, SPGS, and Latymer, but can only take one place. At least 20 girls from Bute House alone will turn down G&L for St Paul's. I don't know if G&L overoffers by a lot or all go onto waiting list, but my point is that if your daughter is a reasonable standard in exams and it's genuinely your first preference and you let them know, you should have a decent chance.

[rosesandlillies]

Thank you irisha you have out my mind at try. We have now done all practice papers so Xmas h

[rosesandlillies]

(Oops) Xmas hols will be some gentle Bond papers ... Keeping spirits high and not too much pressure!! Thanks again and good luck to your DD too

[Shootingatpigeons]

Irisha Don't worry, they understand Dyslexia, both my girls are dyslexic, one was not diagnosed until later, the other sat the exams with a diagnosis and was given extra time. Both got in everywhere. That was the root of my comment about them understanding the difference between those who do the early questions accurately and those who make silly mistakes / misread questions but crack the later questions that are more tests of lateral thinking. Good luck to you both.

[NWgirls]

In case it is useful for someone before deciding whether to apply:

Do NOT give up even if your DD is struggling to score very highly on past North London girls consortium maths tests. Our experience is that even the roughly 55% territory can give a waiting list space at NHEHS.

I marked past tests myself at home, mostly just gave 1 point per answer, and used test conditions. My DD would always get into time trouble and get through say 70-80 percent of the questions - and would get about 70-80 percent of the available points on those she answered.

Initially (October/November in year 6) she was as low as 35-45 percent of the total, but some systematic work over some weeks helped get that up just above 50. She is currently - after the home practicing and January entrance tests - working at level 4a at a state school, up from 4c at end of year 5. She has moved between top and middle groups.

And no, DD is not stellar at English to counterbalance - yes, she reads really well and would get most answers right/OK at the reading comprehension, but her writing is average at best. (I wish I had gotten some support for her on that TBH) So my point is there is hope!

I believe Godolphin & Latymer requires a higher score as it seems to have (even) more applicants. But don't give up!

[Twinprimes]

Getting very good at easier questions is very important. That's the way to pick up two thirds of the marks then pick up a few more marks from the harder part of the paper . That is why state school children should be able to pass even without level 6 problem solving algebra etc.