is no RMPS in S5 standard?

[DonkeyHohtay]

Have a child who has just finished Nat 5s and the school has already started them on their S5 timetable. He has 32 periods a week, 3 short days and 2 long days. He has 6 periods in each of his 5 Higher subjects, one period of PHSE and one of PE. No RE at all. Also last year he had 2 periods of PE instead of just one.

I'm far too old to remember whether I had RE in fifth year or not. Is it not a legal requirement right through the school?

[dementedpixie]

Dd had RE up to the end of S4. She doesn't have it in S5 as she didn't choose to take it as an exam subject. She has 2 PE and 1 PHSE. She has lots of double periods for her S5 subjects

[dementedpixie]

I don't care that she doesn't have RE tbh

[NeverSayFreelance]

When I did the previous system (standard grades > highers > advanced highers) there was no RMPS or PE in 5th year. Only PSE.

[DonkeyHohtay]

No I'm not fussed that he doesn't have it either. But they did a lot of ethical debate type stuff that DS enjoyed in S4, he loves nothing more than a good argument....

He is considering taking it as a proper subject in S6, assuming he does OK in his Highers next May. If no schools are offering it as core in S5 it mustn't be a legal requirement.

[DonkeyHohtay]

NeverSayFreelance

I'm old enough to have done O grades. Although my brother who is two years younger did standard grades. I just can't remember if I had RE in S5 or not. Thinking hard, I suspect not.

[LoopyGremlin]

Students in S5 and S6 should still be getting core RME. It is the only mandatory subject in secondary!

[DonkeyHohtay]

It's obviously not legally mandatory as it's not happening. There's another publication I found, published by the Scottish Government which says "Only a minority of non-denominational schools deliver this national expectation for RME in the senior phase. "

Expectation then, not mandatory. They can expect all they like...

[dementedpixie]

I've also read that there is supposed to be 6 occasions of religious observance at Scottish schools in a school year so they could have whole school assemblies, prize giving in a church, etc to fulfil that

[LoopyGremlin]

@DonkeyHotay
It is indeed mandatory, hence the wording “statutory” core subject. However, many schools do not deliver RME beyond S4 despite the legislation laid out in the Education (Scotland Act) 1980. It is looked on quite unfavourably by HMI if it is not offered and it will be recommended that they offer some form of religious education and observance. I am a secondary teacher BTW.

[prettybird]

Ds' old school had a church service at the end of the Christmas term that no one went to - not sure about other occasions (Easter?). Given that it was/is so multi-cultural with a high proportion of Muslims, lots of Sikhs and Hindus, plus Jewish and other faiths not even taking into account the atheists , anything too overtly Christian would have been a problem, and the fact that technically those young people could have been withdrawn from such sessions would have been a nightmare to manage

Ds enjoyed (I think) the core RMPS that he did up to the end of S4 (and got a Nat 4 for it) and I'm sure the debate within it I'm sure helped prepare him for the crash Higher in Modern Studies that he did in S6 - and possibly gave him a foundation for the Philosophy modules he has done at Uni.

[DonkeyHohtay]

Seems to be a widespread "problem" of S5 and S6 pupils not getting RE. I don't really perceive it as a problem tbh, was just curious. And the school the kids are at had a very good HMIE inspection and there's no mention of lack of RMPS at all.

I'm not disagreeing with you Loopy, but the Scottish government can't say on one hand that something is mandatory, and then do nothing to enforce that. They're obviously perfectly happy that most non-dom secondary schools aren't offering core RE in S5 and S6. Probably because they know the vast majority of parents in a non-dom school aren't fussed about one period a week of RE either.

As for the "religious observance" thing, that's fairly woolly too. I know DS has a weekly assembly, but it's a 15-20 minute thing tops where the year head tells them about what's going on in school and reminds them to wear a tie. They do sometimes have a minister in for special occasions like Christmas or Remembrance Day. Probably just enough to tick the boxes. But again, would any parent in a non-dom school care enough to count the number of "religious observance" assemblies and create a stooshie about it?

[LoopyGremlin]

I can only go with my experience. I totally agree with you that it is very wooly and that the SG should either enforce it or else allow it to be optional. I’m not an RE teacher but the headteacher in my school is always saying that RME is the only mandatory subject and therefore we must pay lip service to it. I think it’s valuable but because it’s seen as ‘just core’ and not all schools are doing it, it does devalue the subject, which is a shame IMO.

[PCohle]

My kids' school stopped compulsory RE at end of S4. Like you, this didn't concern me in the least.

That said, it does seem like they're technically meant to have it all the way through though - www.gov.scot/publications/curriculum-for-excellence-religious-and-moral-education/ see para 9.