help me with this dog's dinner, please

[ohnothanks]

For a while now I’ve been more unhappy in my relationship than I’ve probably admitted to anyone – partner included. Although I don’t think he is particularly happy either. Together 15 years, two youngish children, not married.

Haven’t had sex in months (me driving this) – I am on meds than nix my libido and have been for years (predating this relationship). This does not help but isn't immediately resolvable and to be honest I’m not totally convinced that’s the main issue.

When we were first together, DP was very prone to petulant strops, angry driving episodes, etc, and he would nurse the anger for several hours afterwards, with a thunderous look. Other male relatives of his have also been like this, apparently.

I know I should have backed away, but I didn’t have the insight or confidence in my own judgement and was brought up to see the best in people and also (with dull predictableness) with an intolerant father prone to strops. There are still infrequent bouts of DH’s petulance and being extremely short with the kids and me, which I hate, and make us all upset.

Day to day we mostly rub along OK, he does his share around the house, and is loyal, solvent (!), good with money and much more involved with the kids’ lives, after I bashed him over the head with Wifework.

He is now much better on the petulance front, but only after lots of forceful pushback from me. I do know that he has worked very hard to change but… now I just find myself spent and resentful and unable to be arsed any more when these blow-ups occur. I can’t even be arsed to fight back any more. There we are, I can’t change how I feel.

There are some complications as there usually are here, which make contemplating change hard. I won’t go into them all as it’ll be even more of an essay, but they are the usual run of child-related concerns (one has early indications of a MH problem, one pubertal and having friendship issues), housing costs / massive mortgage/ cost of living where we live, and also the fact that we work in the same field. No possibility of moving area nor do I want to.

On the plus side, I have lots of fantastic friends, some great hobbies and lots of interests, and an independent cut to my jib 😉 Being single really doesn’t scare me at all from an emotional POV.

Help, wise women of Mumsnet. Where do I go from here when everything feels so complex and untangle-able?

I know it’s time for a big chat with partner, but I need a sense of whether I’m being unreasonable or overly demanding or not – still haven’t banished my people pleaser instincts totally.

[ohnothanks]

I should have been clearer that in going on about contemplating change, what I mean is contemplating splitting up. I can barely write it, it's hard.

[ohnothanks]

I'm having a really low day and I could do with some advice :( I've always had a problem with asking friends for advice and sharing the tricky bits of life, because I wasn't brought up to do that and it was always stressed that you shouldn't burden other people.

Has anyone experienced something similar and what decision did you make?

[FuckItPassMeTheWine]

Hi op , aww reading what you said made me feel sad :( sending you hugs

He sounds self centred and not nice in general but I realise I may not be getting the total picture from a few posts . Would you consider couples counselling at all? Xxx

[QuentinSummers]

for you
I would suggest counselling for yourself. It sounds like you are unhappy and it might help you get clarity about exactly why and what you want to do

[something2say]

I was a DV advisor for years. He'd get sharp shrift from me for that bullshit.

[Singlenotsingle]

You aren't being U to want a stress free relationship. You've got enough stresses going on in other areas of your life and it's not nice to be treading on eggshells all the time. It's probably time for a quiet talk, say you really can't deal with it any more and feel you would both be better off àpart, and how does he feel.

[redastherose]

Yes, counselling would probably help you identify what it is that you want. It sounds as though he is an involved Father and shares the load at home after some pushing from you. His sulking isn't particularly helpful but then your statement about sex being off the table and that being down to you isn't ideal either. Couples counselling and individual counselling may help you both out.

[category12]

Sounds like you're about done with him, tbh. You might find you have a calmer more settled home for your dc if you were to split: there tends to be an automatic "how will the dc cope if the parents split", but if one parent is temperamental and angry, it's not a bad thing to be out of that atmosphere.

[Gruffalina72]

I'm sorry you've had a tough day. I've been reflecting on what you've written, so a lot of this is in question format, but please don't feel you need to post your answers. I just wonder if they might help guide your thoughts a bit.

What do you mean by angry driving episodes - driving dangerously with you in the car to frighten you? But then blaming it on anger (or something you did)?

And how infrequent is infrequent - unpredictable?? Do you end up walking on eggshells in between because you don't know when he'll next blow up at you all? Is the reason they're infrequent because you go out of your way to appease him?

If he had worked that hard to change in 15 years you wouldn't still be on the receiving end of these "blow ups". They sound really distressing. The driving one is extremely concerning if it is what I think it is, and is in no way whatsoever normal.

What triggers them?

Are the children afraid of upsetting him?

Do you describe these as petulance because they're in response to him not getting his own way?

Is there any connection between the possible MH issues mentioned with your child and the unpredictable, sometimes threatening environment you're all living in?

You don't need to share your answers necessarily, but if you're answering yes to these I would have serious concerns that he is abusive and would strongly advise you not to even contemplate couples counselling. Have you tried or considered counselling for yourself alone?

Relationships take work, yes, but they should not drain your soul. You shouldn't have to be finding the energy to pushback against somebody who uses threatening, angry outbursts as a control mechanism. Life is too short and too precious.

From what you've shared, I don't see any sign of you being unreasonable or demanding. I think you've actually put up with things you shouldn't have had to. Your own needs are as important as anybody else's - you weren't put on this earth just to serve other people's needs.

How does it make you feel if you imagine yourself still there, still dealing with angry outbursts, in another 15 years?

What makes you hesitate to leave? Fear? Or something else?

What would you like for the future for you and your children?

You sound like you've got so much going for you. You shouldn't have to be miserable.

[AdaArdor]

I could have written this post myself OP. Am in a very similar situation to you, and know how draining it is. I think my relationship is coming to an end, unless I see from him some truly concerted effort to address his issues. Sadly, I'm fully prepared for that not to happen and am starting to get my head around the fact we might be over. It's such a head-fuck.

I would also recommend some personal counselling for you, although maybe you don't need that, you sound like your gut knows what to do... Also, do you still love him? What are his good qualities as a person (not that he's good with money and the kids and housework?) Is he funny? Is he supportive? Is he caring? Is he generous? Would he do anything for you aside from these moods?

Would he be open to joint therapy and from there perhaps some anger management classes?

[QuentinSummers]

I just read "too good to leave, too bad to stay". Helpful in isolating and identifying issues but also a total headfuck so be prepared if you do read it

[ohnothanks]

I'm so sorry it has taken me this long to come back to my thread. It's been a really busy week at work and outside.
Thank you all very much for replying. I got a lot from reading your responses.

@FuckItPassMeTheWine I think you have actually hit the nail on the head. I've often had this little voice saying "he's just not kind enough for you" and I think I should heed it. Couples counselling I'm not sure of because I think a lot of his issues stem from his upbringing (as do mine). @QuentinSummers have already had individual counselling that helped me piece together why I put up with shit from other people/ men, but maybe I need some more.

@SomethingToSay thank you for your post. I actually agree that it is a form of abuse. I told him so many years ago and I think that shocked him to moderate his behaviour a bit. Whenever I raise the same charge now he says that "he's not allowed to have feelings" which is not true obviously. I don't hink deep down he has accepted the anger issue nor enquired too deeply about where it.might come from and how he might go about fixing it.
@Singlenotsingle, I think you are rijt. We have had this talk before but several years ago and we agreed to give it some more time.
@Category12 you are right about being out of a temperamental household. I fear my kids are afected by his temper but he has never, not once, broached the issue himself of how he might better handle the kids. He is just passive and leaves all the hard bits of parenting (thinking about how we parent, how we are to our kids, values, etc) to me really. It would be nice if he did some of the thinking.
@Gruffalina72 thank you. The week improved thankfully.

Angry driving episodes, no not intentionally to frighten me, just unable to control rage at other drivers. I.e., used to go after people who had cut him up and drive aggressively at them. This doesnt happen more than a couple of times a year (?) any more because I told him to stop the car and I would get out and walk home. I honestly think no-one has ever picked him up on this before and He has just seen it as normal and acceptable. Infrquent blow ups, probably every 3 weeks at a guess. Flashpoints are holidays, travel, social occasions ( especially people in our house)

Are the kids afraid of upsetting him? Oh yes. Absolutely. Dd sometimes cries when she's done something daft because she knows her dad will be cross wih her. I have to say at this ppint he is not really shouty. He is just cross and glowering and very short and will then basically not talk to you for a while afterwards.

The things that make me stay rather than leave are mostly about expectation and also about practicalities.

Parents (both sets) would be gutted.
Worry what will happen to kids also. He would want full involvement and they would get him without me pulling him up. Maybe he would just revert to type and who would look out for my kids then?!
We work together also. This could be very awkward. No possibility of transfer for either of us.
Housing costs- we would have to either sell up or subdivide property. I am so settled here as are the kids, they +me have worked hard to make and keep friends, we have great fun + some support from them: no-one would want to leave. For context I live in the 2nd most expensive borough in.the country for housing costs and would not qualify for any benefits on my salary aside from CB. I would be able to afford a 2 bed flat probably.
I dont know how I would manage the school run. I have an hours' commute each way on my days in head office (3× per week), the other two I am in a local office which is 2 mins away.
@AdaArdour I'm really sorry you are in the same situation. It is really shit isn't it? Not what I dreamed of as a romantic teenager.

In terms of his oher qualities he is actually quite funny and will go out of his way to do things for you sometimes. Other times he is totally oblivious to others' needs, difficulties, complexities and stresses.

To give you an example, he has expunged friends who he thinks are in unsatisfactory relationships; he tries for a short while to help them and if they don't do exactly what he thinks they should do, he cuts them dead.
On another occasion, he refused to go and pass a message on to our neighbours' child to say I (and DC) were running late for a sleepover. This was because he thought the sleepover was a bad idea. For what it was worth I also thought it was a bad idea (!) but I didnt think that warranted disappointing the 7yo next door who might think we had forgotten and was probably looking forward to it. I do not make a habit of being late by the way, his was exceptional.
Whew. That was long. Thanks.if you read it all.

[ohnothanks]

Oops. No, I don't live in the 2nd most expensive borough because that is in inner London and I don't live there... nevertheless where I do actually live is very pricy. Think smallish 2 bed flat for £500k plus.