Parentification/emotional incest....

[EasyToEatTiger]

I think this may be part of the dysfunction that I grew up in. I used to think that my life was a hideous mess because my dad is wrong in the head. I think the picture is broader and I can see clearer the role of my mum. One of my brothers was always the Golden Boy, and I think both my parents used him for their own benefit. Now, nearly 40, he thinks all his problems stem from ADHD. My other brother who's in his mid 40s still lives with my parents, married a woman who is definitely emotionally abusive towards her children, but these days he thinks our parents 'need' him.
I too have suffered from eating disorders and major depression. I really only saw my dad whn he was in a rage or was going to beat me up. My mum told me to leave and stay away. She is now fading away through Alzheimer's.

I am just finding the whole situation unbearably sad as it comes to a head sometimes when I meet other family members, and I really don't know how to articulate my lack of contact.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

When you say 'articulate my lack of contact' do you mean these other family members don't know any of the above?

[EasyToEatTiger]

One side of the family has the attitude of See no Evil, Speak no evil... It basically amounts to shutting out and going Laaaaaa. The other side of the family take the view that it's none of their business and my parents are charming and aren't we lucky. I am not believed. I have been told by members of the latter side of the family that I am misinterpreting the situation. Although I have a family of my own and we struggle on, it still hurts to be so much abandoned. I don't want my children to suffer as I and my siblings have. My brother's children are in a dreadful situation.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

If you have a family of your own that's all you need concern yourself with. Your children only need Mum and Dad to feel secure. All these other 'sides' of the family have no real connection to you... why would you take any notice of anything they say? You're not responsible for your brothers or your parents, only yourself and your immediate family. It isn't being abandoned if you decide to be independent.

[AndTheBandPlayedOn]

What a horrid time you have had.

Imho, if people are rude enough to bring it up,
then perhaps you could have a pithy response such as "enough is enough". If pressed, place your boundary with something like, "I am not going to discuss that here" and change the subject. Walk away if necessary.

You do not owe anyone an explanation, or conversation, on the subject.

If folks do not know the background as Cogito asked, then they are just being nosey, imho. Someone may show genuine concern, but what the heck do they think they will be able to do about it? You know the answer is "absolutely nothing", so to spare yourself the pain of rehashing it (especialy as it may be gossip fodder). I would claim the subject as very private and, as above, decline to discuss it.

[AndTheBandPlayedOn]

A coupe of x posts.

Perhaps your mother's words to leave and stay away was doing you a favor. Your father sounds very abusive and probably will not change. Staying away from him is the right answer. Keeping your dc away from him is the right answer too, imho.

You can not misinterpret your own truth. Ignore those kinds of condescending comments (however they are rather telling: used to keep you in your place).

I agree with Cogito. Celebrate your family-that is your dh and dc. Your family of origin is a long line of freight cars filled with garbage baggage. Leave it on a siding. Let it fade into the background, way into the background, as you move forward and thrive in your own life.

[EasyToEatTiger]

Thank you for your responses. By and large I have very little to do with my family of origin and I have taken my mum's words to heart. It is awful how the abuse goes on... My mum is suffering at the hands of my dad, I get shouted at for things I can do nothing about. I have little communication with either of my brothers because they do not function in the adult world at all.
I'm sorry that it does surface every now and again since both of my parents are still alive. albeit on my mum's part, only just breathing. It has really only just dawned on me how much both my parents rely on my brothers as marital glue. I had thought it was just my dad, but now I'm not so sure.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

If your mother is a vulnerable adult with Alzheimers and is suffering abuse from your father then you could theoretically alert social services. Who shouts at you? Your father?

[EasyToEatTiger]

I have been in contact with all the people I can - SS, mum's psychiatrist, her nurse...I have spoken to so many people... I have said to my parents that we are not going there over christmas, but I will be organising a carer if they come here. My father would prefer to be alone than allow anyone else to see what he is like. Really. My younger brother shouted at me. He is still a child and an emotionaly abused one who has never sought help. He blamed my dad for his own drinking too much. Of course it is easy and sensible to say, well step aside. I am very frightened of continuing this toxic thing through my own relationship and the way my husband and I behave towards each other. Sadly I don't think these things just go away. There are times when I feel like a rank outsider.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

It's only a toxic thing if you let it control the way you feel about yourself. You have complete free will about how you deal with your own immediate family. And if your husband behaves badly towards you then you don't have to tolerate it.

There's nothing you can do about your father, you seem to have made a lot of effort on behalf of your mother which you can be proud of. If your brother is under 18 are SS not interested in his welfare?

[EasyToEatTiger]

If only life were so simple.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Some aspects of life are not easy. These are the things we cannot control or influence and which have to be endured best we can. Some aspects however, are actually very simple and we can influence them very much, but we tell ourselves that they are out of our control because it will involve a difficult decision, some courage, a change in attitude or we're risking upsetting others.

Ultimately, the only person you can rely on to put your wellbeing first place is yourself. Not relatives and not even partners.

[EasyToEatTiger]

I am very sad that I lost a brother early on. Now I am losing my mother. I am also grieving the loss of my 2 other brothers. It is unbearably sad.

[EasyToEatTiger]

It is very easy to suggest the old, Oh just Grow Up. It is dawning on me just how devastating to my original family the dysfunction has been. I'm not sure what's worse, having no parents at all or the most useless destructive ones.

With the best will in the world we cannot leave our past totally in a psychic rubbish dump.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

No we can't just leave things behind. We are the sum of our experiences. As we grow and mature as individuals, experiences & decisions form our character and values. If we deal with the past in a healthy way, we can become better, more understanding people, resolved not to repeat mistakes going forward, more capable of making good decisions. When it becomes unhealthy is when we believe our future is determined by our past and that we are locked into a path we cannot change. Living like that is very stressful.

[EasyToEatTiger]

Coming up for air and finding ways to live instead of ways to die really has been like doing a handbrake turn in a container ship. I think I'm almost in the right direction. If I look back it's chaos. V sad to lose all my family to this chaos. I so hope I haven't dragged my past with me regards my relationship and my children.

Best not to look back then...

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Look back on the chaos almost as if it happened to someone else. A character in a book perhaps. Dip in from time to time. Understand, sympathise and learn from their experience but then close the book, as it were, so that you can go on living.

[EasyToEatTiger]

Most of the time it is like this. Sometimes it is overwhelming. I have to deal with one of my brothers about my mother. This is sad and difficult as he is obsessed with the idea that he has ADHD and as such is not good with responsibility. He is the only person who has known him any length of time who thinks he has ADHD. The trouble with looking things up online is that they are like horoscopes and self diagnosis is easy.

I was asked by a clinical psychologist about abuse. He suggested my behaviour was like an abused person. I was confused and said that there was no sex so how could it be? This was 20 years ago and a lot of therapy water has passed under the bridge since then. It has been very hard to articulate.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Abuse takes many forms. You can be bullied or emotionally abused even if you're not physically abused and there can be similarities in the response of the victim. Off the top of my head... feeling you won't be believed or that you'll be judged by others, believing the treatment was brought on yourself in some way, doubting things were as bad as you remember...

If your brother is hiding behind a non-existent condition to dodge taking responsibility, understand the game he's playing, call him out on it if necessary, and treat him the way you would anyone else who was standing in your way.

[EasyToEatTiger]

I am confused. You appear to know all the answers. How? Why? When?
Who are you that knows how to live life as you are and why do you think you are right?

[bsc]

She doesn't know. She's suggesting things you could explore, in order to help you. Cut her some slack!

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I don't know the answers and I don't know how to live your life. But you say you're confused, you put up some questions and I'm suggesting some explanations from my own experience and understanding. If it's not helpful or if I sound intrusive, I apologise.

[EasyToEatTiger]

Thanks Cogito. What you say is true, and I understand very clearly what you are saying. It is quite a shock to realise my mum's part in the dysfunction. I think she held on to my brothers to shield her against my dad. My dad has probably got something wrong with his brain - his behaviour and relationships are unquestionably abnormal and mum's psychiatrist finds him 'difficult'.

Sometimes, despite living in the real world these days, I still find things overwhelmingly sad sometimes.

[fromparistoberlin]

well I wont offer any advice!

Life can be fucking fucked up mess.

I think you sound very guilty (for no reason), and are carrying alot. I 10000% advise that you see a therapist, I got a great one from this website here:www.itsgoodtotalk.org.uk/therapists/

some stuff you can mentally discipline
some habits can be changed
some grief can be outlet
some changes can be made
some stuff you accept, like you just accept it, and live with it

and of course, nothing can be fixed. But you can work on yourself, and how you manage it all

GO! It really helps

[EasyToEatTiger]

I'm going on Mon to a therapist. Dh and I have been going together for a while now and he wants to see us individually. Frankly I'm terrified. I don't want to have to go through my life again. Some stuff I do accept, and I do the best I can. I try very hard not to look back. There are times however when the past is in front of me, and in my way.