Money in relationships

[Space2000]

I've been having problems in my relationship since the birth of my lo ten months ago, a friend of both of ours knows about the problems and said she'd noticed that we did not consider money as both of ours. My money's mine and his money's his. I don't earn at the moment so stopped paying him rent. We split as much we could in past but he pays for a lot more now as i dont work and as I get small amount of tax credits which seems to go on my very few direct debits. (Car insurance, phone)
I don't see this as problem as long as its quite equal and he's not spending loads on himself, but she seems to think it shows we don't work together.
Is this an example of deeper issues in a relationship, not willing to share and 'a yours and Mine' situation?
She has a lot more money than us in her relationship, where as I feel we don't have much so we must not have much spare after living costs so theres nothing to split after his direct debits have gone out bank. But then I'm not really sure what dp earns per month as he's self employed.

[Xales]

What are the other problems?

I don't understand that you are living on next to nothing not knowing what is coming in when you are bringing up his and your child.

I never got that sorry.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Few questions, up to you if you want to answer on thread or use as a starting point for discussion with him/to organise your own thoughts.

Do you have any spending money, do you find that your own spending money tends to go on things that are really essentials? (Stuff for the baby counts as essential, BTW)
Do you feel that he values you less since you have stopped bringing money directly into the household?
Can you/do you ask him to sub you if you run out and are you ever in a situation to sub him back?
If you do ask him for money does he make you justify what it is for or make you feel bad about having it?
Are you having to ask him for money a lot of the time?
Do you/he have bad history with money which is stopping you from having a joint account together?

Something else that stuck out at me - paying him rent? Huh - are you a family, a partnership, or is he your landlord/father?? (obviously not a literal question but in terms of roles here)

I think it's not a problem in itself, many couples have separate accounts as that works for them, what is more important is how money is dealt with in general.

It does strike me that you seem to be living as separate entities which I'm not sure really works when you have a child. I have done separate accounts when in joint responsibility for a child and it's very fluid, money sort of comes out of the account of whoever has it, there are no arguments about who owes what or who paid for what last time because it's just stupid and irrelevant - but neither person takes the piss. I've also done joint accounts with a financially abusive twat and that did nothing to help us feel more together, so I don't think that joint/separate accounts are the issue at all. Arguing tit for tat or making one person feel they are worth less because they physically bring in less isn't on, though.

[Space2000]

Sorry I don't know if I've explained it very well. Other problems being not getting on well, his old issue of drinking too much being a major issue.

Our friend knows we are having a difficult time and suggested trying to combine money as it shows a lack of commitment.
I'm really trying to ask you mnetters if its unusual to have separate finances?

And yes I am bringing up our child not knowing our financial situation. this may be another possible reason for not getting on so well anymore.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Oh crap, you're basically me 4 years ago.

Separate finances, you not knowing his finances, especially when he has a woolly excuse like "being self employed", feeling like you (as a couple/family) are struggling for money combined with a drinking problem is a HUGE issue.

DO NOT COMBINE MONEY WITH HIM.

Do you know if he has any debt?

[DuelingFanjo]

Is this temporary? Will you be earning again soon? If not then I think you DO need to look at how finances are split. However, DH and I did as you did while I was on maternity leave and then carried on as normal when I went back with us both paying equally for utilities, food, mortgage and childcare but keeping our bank accounts and income separate. It works for us.

[Space2000]

Yoni- thank you. A lot for me to think about and to bring to the discussion with him.

I'm just so confused after my friend bought this up.

And feeling a little out of control money wise

[Space2000]

I have new job, few hours a week building up to full time in a years time.
Yes I found out recently he has debt. I live within my means and have no debt.

[Space2000]

Dueling- yes that's how I think we are doing it. I'd like to spilt everything when I earn again.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

If he has debt then absolutely do not open any joint accounts with him, especially if he has an alcohol problem.

Does he see his drinking as a problem or does he think it's totally fine?

[Space2000]

He has calmed his drinking right down, after I left with lo for a month. He used to think it wasn't a problem. All the excuses 'drinks to relax' 'only drinks beer' etc. really was a major problem but has turned a corner last few months and there's hope we will over come our arguments/back lash for being a drinker due to resentment.
In a way I don't want to combine finances but I do want to see his bank balance and direct debits etc. he reluctantly gave me estimated figure for tax credit forms.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

If you don't mind me asking, what sort of amounts are we talking before/after the "calming down"?

I'm not an expert on problem drinkers (my ex never really kicked it despite slowing down/stopping at times) but I would have thought that to be serious an actual alcoholic needs a proper plan and support to reliably stop.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Sorry OP, obviously I'm not you, your DP isn't my ex, so take with a pinch of salt. I don't mean to project and say "My situation is the same as yours!" - I can just see a lot of similarities. If it helps I have just found a post I wrote in 2009 after one of the times he stopped drinking - some of the advice was very sensible re drink etc so thought it might be worth a link.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/725110-He-has-decided-to-stop-drinking

[Space2000]

Thank you Yoni. I really appreciate your help. I feel that it is early days with him really as this calming down may only last a few months, I won't know for sure yet.. I won't join finances yet. I will look into your previous questions and issues. And I'm going to have a good old read of your link to previous thread .

[Space2000]

Can I ask Yoni did you split due to his alcohol consumption?

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Well only you know how much you can take. I want to tell you from experience to cut your losses and quit giving him so many chances... but I know that it's unlikely you are ready to do that just yet. So if nothing else, protect your own finances while you figure things out. Good luck to you - it's a weird, hard, emotional journey.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

Not only alcohol. It was one of many things. He was also emotionally abusive - something I didn't know about at the time of writing that thread but later learned about from reading threads on here. He was very stingy with money, I didn't know whether I was coming or going and was often left in the house without food and had to struggle to the expensive corner shop (which was down a steep hill meaning I had to come back up it with buggy, baby and shopping!) or wait until the evening when he would produce a takeaway (we were skint, but most of his money was cash in hand so very variable)

He was irresponsible, didn't do anything for the baby unless pushed. Was very paranoid, wouldn't specifically stop me from doing things but the hassle I got if I dared to go out or talk to a man was ridiculous. He was pushy about sex, too. As well as all of this I just realised by the end of the relationship that I didn't even like him very much any more. He was boring, nothing like the person I'd originally fancied, we had no spark, he was obsessed with sex and barely spoke to me otherwise. I was lonely. He didn't look after me (at all) when I was ill. Complained about being expected to do the slightest bit of housework. It was just hard work being with him - he was grumpy and defensive a lot of the time.

I am in a very different relationship now and I have totally changed my views on relationships thanks to mumsnet.

[YoniBottsBumgina]

I mean, obviously I'm listing the reasons why we split, there must have been some good in there at some point. We did have good times - nobody would stay in a relationship which was all bad. I just came to realise that it doesn't matter how they are in the good times, it's how they are in the bad times which matters.

Bad times with my DP now, we pick each other up, lean on one another, support one another and never ever cause them. With XP it was like when I was down he saw me as totally useless and despised me. The total opposite of support - and he was quite often the cause of the bad times, too.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I'd highlight a few things. It's important that you both have equal access to the same amount of personal spending money and that you are responsible, either individually or jointly, for a fair/proportional share of the joint outgoings. Second, even if you use a joint account to pay for those joint outgoings, it is important for your security and self-esteem to control your own income in your own account as much as you can. Whether that's from a job, various child-related benefits or a monthly transfer from your partner it doesn't really matter. But try not to be dependent on a partner for your income, especially if there is any doubt about the relationship. Third is that, as you're not married, understand what that means in terms of finances, property, debts and any cash assets in the event of a split - also inheritance & insurance in the event of death. I would say not being married is another good reason for keeping finances fair but separate.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

" I don't want to combine finances but I do want to see his bank balance and direct debits etc."

Open-book is essential if you're to work out what is 'fair'. Hiding finances won't work.

[ALittleStranger]

Don't open a joint account with someone with debts.

How reliable is the estimated figure for child tax credits? I hope you haven't inadvertently committed benefit fraud.

You need your own income, your relationship sounds too rocky not to.