i think we need counselling or this is the beggining of the end for us

[FaceLikeAPickledOnion]

I'm posting on my crap phone so apologies for any mistakes. This will probably be long, sorry.
I've never posted anything about my relationship before. But I could use some unbiased advice.
Been together since our teens, first bf/gf, got married, had 2 dc. Now in early 30's.

We were together 8 years before ds1 came along. Our relationship had been great. Dh was very laid back, easy going, I'd never seen him lose his temper, raise his voice etc. He was so gentle natured which was a big part of him I fell in love with.

Around the time ds1 was born, Dh changed jobs, something completely different to what he'd done before. He was good at his new job and it progressed quickly to superviser role, then deputy manager. At this time he started being bossier, more assertive at home. Not in an aggressive or abusive way though.
But now after 7 years and another dc, that gentle nature is completely gone.
Most days I get spoken to like a member of staff or his dc than his dw. He now also has a short fuse, again never violent or abusive but we rarely go on a car journey where he doesn't swear or shout at another motorist.
Last night was the straw that broke the camels back, we were sat eating dinner at the dining table and I had a few minutes to quickly eat before going to work. I was eating and just looking at the newspaper, Dh told me to stop reading the paper and talk to ds, so I did, then ds went in the kitchen to get something to show me and as he did I glanced back over at the newspaper, Dh got up (as ds was coming back in) took the paper from the table and folded it up then said to me, I've told you not to do that, now I'm moving it. I felt so belittled. I didn't say anything, but went upstairs to get ready for work, in 5 minutes he told off ds1 about 10 times over petty things. I went to work but couldn't get it out of my head.

When I got home we had a chat and I brought up what had happened earlier. I admitted I wad wrong for reading the paper when we were supposed to be having a family meal and chatting, but he genuinely couldn't see what he'd done wrong. I said he wouldn't of done that to his mother or anyone else so why did he think it was acceptable to do it to me? He said it was because be asked me not to do something and I carried on doing it. I said if this continues I can't carry on with this relationship anymore. I think we need counselling, I love the old him, but he said he's moved on and isn't that person anymore.
Thanks for reading (if anyone does)

[ZorbaTheHoarder]

I think you are right to feel that you shouldn't be spoken to like that by your own husband - you don't deserve to be belittled in this way. It sounds as though he is treating you (and your son) the same way he would boss around his underlings at work. If you told him that you couldn't carry on like this and his response was 'I've moved on', I would be worried that he is not very committed to making your relationship work.

Telling off your DS so much in a short space of time suggests that he is angry about something, but he clearly doesn't want to talk to you about it - is your communication with each other ok in general?

You could ask him again if he is really not prepared to try counselling to save the marriage and then you will have a definitive answer.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

He sounds horrendous. How astonishingly patronising to think it's OK to tell you to stop reading a newspaper! And you actually did it!!.... I'd have taken the folded newspaper and shoved it up his arse....

People change most between age 19 and 30. It's a doddle to be easy-going and 'hale fellow well met' when you're a teen with no responsibilities.... Abusive men often don't reveal themselves until the arrival of the first child. Seems he's changed into a bossy, controlling twat, it suits him just fine and he isn't at all interested in counselling if it means he might have to change attitude.

Sorry.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Joint counselling also is never recommended when there is ongoing emotional abuse.

No decent counsellor worth their salt would ever see the two of you together.
If counselling is done, I would go on your own so you can also talk freely and without incurring his further wrath.

How did he respond to your comment that if this continues you cannot carry on with the relationship anymore?.

He gets what he wants from this relationship i.e to keep you in your place by using his temper but as for you, I don't see at all what you get out of this relationship now. What keeps you within this, what needs of yours are actually being met here?.

[FaceLikeAPickledOnion]

He said because he didn't raise his voice or lose his temper it was ok!
Hardly any of my emotional needs are being met anymore but I've invested a hell of a lot of my life in this relationship, I don't want to give up on it without trying.

He has agreed to counselling, but says the old him is gone now and he's moved on from the person he used to be.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

He's saying 'I'm not changing'. Please listen. He thinks his behaviour is fine. He has no interest in modifying his behaviour. It wouldn't be 'giving up without trying' to decide enough is enough..... it is not you that needs to try here.

[Lueji]

So, without raising your voice, you can tell him to f off to the far side of f and then f* off some more. And stay there.

He is ordering you about and punishing you like a child.
Never mind counselling. You tell him that the next time he repeats that he can pack his bags.

There could be something else going on, but he has no right to treat you like that, and he's showing your children how you "should" be treated. Not good at all.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What you have tried to date has not worked so you need a complete change of tack now.

Many women stay in dysfunctional and abusive relationships because they think that they cannot leave without trying more attempts to make it work because they have invested in the relationship emotionally. Do not fall into this trap. A person cannot carry a relationship on their own and your H is clearly not interested in addressing any of the inherent problems with this relationship because he gets what he wants from it. He's not interested in what you want from it.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships here?. Surely not this dysfunctional model of one.

[BicBiro]

the problem with going for counselling in this situation is because he doesn't think there is anything wrong with his behaviour or your relationship, he us quite unlikely to invest the level of input required into it to bring about the change you are hoping for. he'll just think its a waste of time.

[FaceLikeAPickledOnion]

I feel that I need to go for counselling. If it works, great, worth it.
If it doesn't, I've tried everything I can, I can walk away without the what ifs.

[Lueji]

You certainly can go, and should probably go.
Just not with him.

[OxfordBags]

Listen to what he is telling you. He has literally said the words that let you know the man you used to love, and - much more importantly - the man who treated you properly, with respect, does not exist any more. He is being clear and upfront about the fact that you can only expect him to behave this way, or worse, from now on.

When people lower their standards to start treating their partners like shit and ignoring their emotional needs, it is Game Over. For two reasons: 1) If they were truly a nice person who could get back to being nice, then they wouldn't have become a shit in the first place, do YSWIM? And 2) Once someone has adjusted their comfort level and reality to treating someone else like shit and getting away with it (this is NOT placing any blame on you, btw), then there is zero impetus or motivation to go back to the old ways where they had to put some thought and effort into things.

The way he spoke to you was awful, and he sounds abusive to the kids too. But most importantly, he is teaching your DS to treat his future partner that way. Can you bear to imagine your darling boy treating a woman like this? Because he will, as it's the only example he's being set.

[whateverhernameis]

I used to have to ask XH to put his mobile phone down while we were eating or in a restaurant, as he was just glued to it all the time, so I can see where he is coming from.

But his attitude is wrong and yes he is treating you like a child. He shouldn't have taken the paper away from you. He should have said - I would prefer it if you didnt read while we are eating. - not just ordered you around.