CDM 2015

[Mrsladybirdface]

Does anyone know what is involved? ..does it have to be a surveyor etc? Our architect has quote 400 to do it for us...seems like a money making scam to me

[Mrsladybirdface]

bumpity bump

anyone else starting a new extension?

[evrybuddy]

What is CDM?

[Mrsladybirdface]

health and safety...on any work that has more than one contractor you need to employ an architect or surveyor to oversee the health and safety aspects. This could be just having a new kitchen fitted because you would have more than one contractor on site! This obviously adds expense on to the majority of projects!

[Mrsladybirdface]

over excited with my !!!! there. well that's what architect told me. ..He did say it was a swizz

[evrybuddy]

Ahhhh! So this kind of thing - www.hse.gov.uk/construction/cdm/faq/site.htm

Is that not more for contractors than householders?
I guess a lot depends on the magnitude of you household!

I'll be having a kitchen and bathroom done soonish - won't be having an architect - no fitters have mentioned CDM to me - up to them I would have thought

[Mrsladybirdface]

Just spoke to the HSE and you do need to have a principle designer and pay them for any work you are having. It is absolutely the duty of the domestic client to make sure this is in place and it has to be someone qualified!absolutely gobsmacked that this is the case...bloody being ripped off £500

[Mrsladybirdface]

What you linked to was cdm 2007. The 2015 ones have been updated to include domestic clients.

[evrybuddy]

Yes - sorry for the dud link - I hope I'm not wrong - but I suspect for 'small' jobs not a lot will change and I'm sure you wouldn't need to spend £500.

Architects and surveyors are always covering their backs at the client's expense...

This HSE pdf is useful: www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/cis80.pdf

[Hamishandthefoxes]

That hse is out of date - they haven't published the guidance for the 2015 regs yet. Very helpful.

£500 seems s lot of money for this work and you might be able to get it cheaper but you either need to accept health and safety responsibility for the design (perhaps check with your house insurance) or appoint a principle designer.

It's bloody annoying.

[Hamishandthefoxes]

Sorry - the hse doc applies to contractors - there are now 2 stages 1) design and someone gas to be principal designer and 2) construction.

If you don't appoint a principal designer the client ends up assuming the role by default.

[evrybuddy]

The HSE doc was published in 04/2015.

Sometimes people seek to complicate in order to generate income.

As the HSE doc says - this doesn't need to be complicated!

[evrybuddy]

www.hse.gov.uk/construction/cdm/2015/summary.htm

• Organisations or individuals can carry out the role of more than one dutyholder, provided they have the skills, knowledge, experience and (if an organisation) the organisational capability necessary to carry out those roles in a way that secures health and safety.

[Jedi1]

You could act as the PD if you don't want to employ someone in that role, in fact if you don't it defaults back to you anyway. Depending on the size of the project your architect or PM can assume the role.

[evrybuddy]

Yep - it looks from all the info I've read (and the HSE say so) that one person can carry out all the duties.

Which is exactly like employing a builder in the real world now, today.

Seems it can be as complicated or as simple as you want to make it.

Be useful to have a 'real' builder comment rather than all us speculators though.

It hasn't been mentioned by or seemed to make a jot of difference to anyone I've had quoting for domestic work.

Probably depends on the magnitude of the job, the number of 'professionals' you consult and how much money they thinnk you have

[Mrsladybirdface]

I'm so confused. it's only a bog standard garage conversion! The HSE helpline were really clear that any job with more than one contractor had to employ a "qualified" ie. someone who knows about health and safety to do it. I even gave them the example of my ikea kitchen...which I planned designed and fitted myself but because we had plumber and an electrician in he said I would need to employ someone to do it.

I haven't got to builders stage yet but will ask their thoughts!

[Hamishandthefoxes]

I work in the construction industry but 000,000,000 gbp projects. An awful lot of contractors and consultants don't know about the changes, or do know about them but won't or can't take in the responsibility and say you'll have to employ someone else to do it.

I'd suggest doing it yourself if that's within your home insurance. You need to make sure the project is safe in design, building and use. The first two your architect and builder ought to be able to confirm for you.

[evrybuddy]

@ Mrsladybirdface

People are always covering their backs - so if the HSE said you don't need someone then they would be talking themselves out of existence.

If your architect says you don't need someone - then the architect gets all scared you'll sue them if the builder drops a brick on his toe.

It's not all your responsibility.

Get a proper builder round and ask them - simple as!

For that kind of job I would have thought the builder is the person to be responsible for their own and the project's health and safety

as it seems here:
www.hse.gov.uk/construction/cdm/2015/summary.htm

For clarity - I am not a lawyer.