Boiler in rented house

[Dizzylamb212]

I have a house that I rent out (accidental landlord). It has a back boiler at the moment but at the last service the plumber said there was a fair bit of corrosion and it might be trouble in the future. My tenant has applied through Npower for a new boiler. she qualifies and they have phoned me today with their proposals. They say the whole job will be £4650 and they will pay £2400 so they want £2200 off me. I've told them to shove it, I could get a new boiler fitted for the £2200 if I had it, which I haven't. They went through the quote and it all seems a bit silly It's a 2 bed terrace with a back boiler. They want to put a new boiler in the loft and use the hot water tank as part of the system - why? So part of their quote is to install a loft ladder, light and board the loft. The tenant said the bloke never even sent in the loft, otherwise he would have known that it is boarded and has light. My tenant is also disabled so putting the boiler in the loft would be a ridiculous idea, she won't want to be climbing in the loft to check the pressure etc. They're ringing me back later after they have spoken to the company who did the quote. I've asked them why they can't just install a combi boiler downstairs somewhere. I want to be prepared for what they might say. Is it just an easier option for them to put it in the loft? Why do they need the hot water tank? Thanks

[specialsubject]

the problem with the assisted upgrades like this is that they can indeed cost a bomb, and also not be a very good job.

take charge. Phone round your local gas safe people and get more quotes. Tell this lot that there are problems with their quote and you are looking elsewhere. Or just say 'no thanks'!

you will need to find the money. All part of being a landlord, accidental or otherwise, I'm afraid.

[Dizzylamb212]

unfortunately (for the tenant) I will just have to keep getting the current one repaired as I just can't "find" thousands for a new boiler! It's pretty clear that this company that have done the quote have just made it up. I know how they work, they've put in a very large labour cost (2 men 3 days) and they will then sub it out at a fixed price, and out in "extras" for work that doesn't even need to be done. The guy didn't even step foot in the loft, how can they quote for boarding it and putting a light in!!

[PigletJohn]

As you say, boiler in loft is not a good option.

I expect they have the impression there is no room in the kitchen. True, you may end up with one wall cabinet fewer. However it probably already has gas and water pipes, electricity, and a sink with a drain where the condensate pipe can go (a frozen condensate pipe in cold weather is very tiresome). So some of the sources of extra work and cost for a loft will disappear.

A conventional boiler with a cylinder is likely to be more reliable and less expensive to maintain than a combi.

Your old system will need thorough powerflushing and a system filter, because it is pretty well certain to be full of rust and sludge.

Opinions differ, but changing an old system to sealed (pressurised) may cause leaks to appear.

Try some local independents. I'd suggest looking on boiler manufacturers' websites to find their local Approved Installers. Also ask around locally and look for a small ad in the Parish magazine.

[Dizzylamb212]

Thanks for your reply... apparently the bloke didn't even go in the kitchen. Yes they might lose a cupboard, which is a better option than going in the loft IMO. They've quoted loads of extras like condensating pump and soak away in addition to the loft ladder etc. Maybe if they ever ring back they might quote again for putting it in the kitchen.
I also don't think the tank is very good, the last gas safe man that came out suggested that it needs venting or something and the hot water currently isn't getting hot enough (I think that's down to the thermostat on the tank so minor problem hopefully).
Wish I could just find someone that wants to pay over market value for a run town terrace house is a rubbish area and get rid of it!!

[specialsubject]

...which was my other suggestion - get rid of it if you can't afford to run it. Unfortunately you have to weigh up any negative equity against continuing to throw money you don't have at a possible money pit.

[Dizzylamb212]

already tried to sell, several times, just no interest, it's not a great area, most houses are rented out. I've been lucky to find another good tenant and they say they want to stay long term. if I could get the money together I would but I just can't. can't get credit thanks to an ex husband with a gambling problem, can't remortgage it as it's already negative equity and my credit rating is shot. hopefully the old boiler will last a few more years with a bit of tlc

[SauvignonPlonker]

OP, have a look at the Energy Saving Trust website; there are schemes for replacing boilers. I am sure there are "green deals" which can be paid back interest-free/monthly through bills - could that be an option.

When I looked into it the other week, it involved having an energy efficiency assessment done (up to £100 of this is refundable) then 3 quotes by the scheme accredited -installers. Then an energy performance certificate at the end. I think the cost was repaid monthly.

I decided not to replace my tenants boiler using it as it seemed over-priced & seemed a lot of appointments & hassle for my tenants. Plus was more expensive in the long term.

[Dizzylamb212]

all these schemes seem like a big scam
npower have said they will fund £2400 which is a huge amount but the company they have used to quote want 4600 for the job and most of it is work that doesn't need to be done. I'm hoping to do some negotiation

[specialsubject]

sorry for the situation. Do NOT put a green deal steal charge on the property, that will make it impossible to sell.

there's a reason there has been a tiny take up from the scheme. The EPC you need is over priced, the work will be over priced and you may not get the money anyway.

the easy solution is to take VAT off boilers; but that doesn't pay £££ to consultants and so no government will entertain it.

[SauvignonPlonker]

It did seem more like a job-creation scheme, with all these extra reports & EPC's being generated. What a rip off.

I also looked at the British Gas deal, and again the costs were about double what my trusty plumber would charge.

[Dizzylamb212]

no intention if going anywhere near green deal. this is the ECO scheme that the tenant applied for, just a shame it seems like a none starter due to blatant fraud on the part of the "installer". I'm hoping they'll provide a realistic quote when they realise they've been "caught out". I'm hoping npower will pull them about quoting for work that doesn't need doing, maybe they'll be worried about losing the contract and start pricing properly

[Dizzylamb212]

update...... npower told the company to go back and quote to install it somewhere more sensible. this time they sent an actual fitter to weigh up the job. he's proposing to put it in the bedroom because it's a huge run for the gas to the kitchen around the house. he almost choked when I told him how much they quoted to put it in the loft! he said they would have done the whole job for less than I was asked to "contribute" which I knew already.
got to wait now for the new price to go to npower for approval, keeping fingers crossed!!!!

[specialsubject]

taking charge pays off!

[Dizzylamb212]

another update......
installation booked..... £100 landlord contribution

[specialsubject]

result!

this is what should be done; improving our housing stock and reducing our energy use.

[specialsubject]

as an aside the Green Deal scheme has been cancelled! Why? Low take up. Now why could that be???

If Amber Rudd is REALLY awake she'll look at sensible low-overhead measures to encourage insulation and more efficient boilers. Lowering/removing VAT on them, maybe?

We can but hope.

[NadiaWadia]

I really wouldn't want to sleep with a boiler in my bedroom, due to the noise, not to mention the possibility of leaks whilst you were sleeping (not when it is new obviously, but a few years down the line). Not much better than the loft, I would have thought. Is this the only place it could go? We have ours in the bathroom, which is fine.

Disclaimer: I am not a gas expert, maybe it's OK, but I would find it offputting, and was a reason I had for rejecting a house previously.

Still, if it doesn't bother your tenant and you're all fine with it.

[specialsubject]

it would be as near perfectly safe as you can get - all modern boilers are room sealed and fail safe, so there are two layers of protection, plus a CO monitor as the third.

the noise of startup etc is a possible issue, but in a cupboard should not be a problem.

loft a bad idea for servicing and access.

[Dizzylamb212]

personally I would prefer it in the kitchen but practically the bedroom is the best place for it.... I think the tenant is just happy that it will hopefully reduce her bills. I'mgoing to put her an electric shower in too as the current one runs from the hot water tank so hopefully she will be happy