I am PIG SICK of amateur property developers cum landlords

[Pantone363]

Out bid by another fucking amateur property developer who will never even live in the property but plans to 'do it up' and flog it on (out of our budget). This is the third time in six months.

We viewed it at 5.45. Walked out of the property at 6.10. Called at 7 to make an offer and it was sold. Vendor not taking any more offers as its a cash buyer (agent told us he had shown them around an hr earlier, retired couple who do houses up as a fucking HOBBY)

I give up. And if one more person says:

Oh you should just buy a little house that needs some work

Can't you borrow anymore money?

Have you thought about buying some land ? I will SCREAM

[hereandtherex]

Let them do it up and then buy it back from them for less money.

[specialsubject]

this person has more money than you. Jealousy and foot-stamping won't change that. Sorry.

renovating tatty houses and turning them into decent ones is what we need to do, rather than concreting over the entire country.

move out of London?

[Theoldshmoo]

DD has had exactly the same problem.

The only houses that are in their price range are the old terrace doer uppers but every time they've thought this is the one, a BTL landlord or developer offers cash to the owner and the house is off the market.

Fast forward 3 months and its up for extortionate rent or back on the market way beyond their budget.

Its very frustrating OP, they've given up and are now renting another house so they cant save much each month.

You have my sympathy Pantone but it seems to be the norm in our area too.

[Belleview]

Happens where I live too. It amazes me. Every single house that was 'normal' ..but housed an elderly person who had lived there for a long time, gets sold and then a team of builders moves in on it and it's under reconstruction for months.
It makes me wonder about changing standards.

[Jedi1]

I'm in SE london and it's exactly the same - my sister is really struggling at the moment.

[JassyRadlett]

renovating tatty houses and turning them into decent ones is what we need to do, rather than concreting over the entire country.

You missed out some words there. I think you meant to say 'renovating tatty houses and turning them into decent ones by people who live in them. Not wannabe tv-show addict developers whose access to equity and capital give them a clear advantage over owner occupiers in the home buying process, leading to higher rents and house prices as the cycle continues unbroken.

My own view is that people should pay an extra tax if they sell a residential property they've never lived in.

move out of London?

How original. I have literally never heard anyone say that before. Anyway - where's the evidence tgat the problem is confined to London?

[specialsubject]

quite a lot. And sorry if you don't like the facts, but as long as everyone continues to want to live in the bottom right corner that is where the prices will be high. So either stop whining or get out.

your fiendish plan means that our housing stock will get ever tattier. Somebody struggling to get a mortgage is not going to have money to live elsewhere while they renovate a house, and as renovation is expensive (VAT on it) they probably can't afford it. That's why it doesn't happen.

BTW a lot of the reason for those nasty rich retired people doing this is low interest rates meaning they are watching their hard-earned (I said EARNED, you know, WORK) money disappear. As it is also very difficult to get a mortgage you wonder who benefits from these low rates.

[JassyRadlett]

Well, you're confusing 'London' with the 'South East' for a start. Plus forgetting places like the South West, where the affordability problem is nearly as bad as it is in the South East. And other concentrated areas.

I'll go back through posts where I've posted actual statistics rather than rhetoric and post them when I get a moment later.

You have an odd idea that owner occupiers will never do up their own homes, over a long time period as the money becomes available. Interesting one. How many shiny-shiny well-maintained long-term rentals have you seen?

[JassyRadlett]

BTW a lot of the reason for those nasty rich retired people doing this is low interest rates meaning they are watching their hard-earned (I said EARNED, you know, WORK) money disappear. As it is also very difficult to get a mortgage you wonder who benefits from these low rates.

So... you do allow that this is a cause of rising property prices then? Because that's what the above implies.

[FadedRed]

People who sell residential property they've not lived in have to pay capital gains tax, don't they?

[Needmoresleep]

Focus on being a good buyer. Many vendors are influenced by the prospect of a stress free sale, and agents by getting their commission quickly. You may not have cash but make sure that your funding is in place and easily accessible. I found it was useful (sorry I am a landlord who has bought a few properties recently!) to be using a solicitor with a good local reputation.

Ask several agents which solicitors they think are efficient, and then approach the solicitor whose name comes up most frequently, check whose panels he is on, and expect to pay the extra for competent conveyancing. One issue is that mortgage lenders seem to be squeezing out extra profit by steering borrowers towards low cost conveyancing firms, who can be dreadfully inefficient, actually incompetent. I know that I have landed properties in a tight market because the agent has been able to tell the vendor that I have everything lined up, mortgage finance arranged and a solicitor who can turn things around in two weeks.

Act decisively. I have been lucky that my finance has been from remortgaging other properties. I have therefore been able to tell the agent that I won't need a survey and that I will pay extra for quick searches.

In short, my offers have been accompanied by a reassurance that I can complete in 3-4 weeks. For many vendors this is a real plus. Because I am not doing a survey the vendor knows I am not going to haggle over price based on survey results.

If you need to mortgage the property, one approach is to ask to take round a trusted and experienced builder at an early stage. He should be able to spot major defects and then give you a rough price for, say, fixing the roof. Plus a view on whether it is a solid house or not. Then simply book the valuation survey that the mortgage company require. If the valuation is conservative, and it often is, and if you are convinced that the price you are paying is fair and have enough deposit to cover the difference, then go ahead anyway. (And indeed if you are on your absolute borrowing limit it is worth seeing if a family member might be able to grant you a short term loan of a few thousand if it turns out you need a bit of slack, as this too will add to the vendors/agents confidence that you won't drop out.)

If you do feel you need to get a proper structural survey, two tips:

1. ask around for a good surveyor. If he is on your mortgage company's panel you can employ him directly and the report will be accepted. This can be both quicker and cheaper. I once bought a period house that was listed and so was able to find a surveyor with good experience of the relevent period, but the same would apply if, say, you are buying a sixties house built with non standard construction methods.
   

1. ask to accompany the surveyor. After all you are paying for him. My experience is that surveys are so caveated as to be practically useless. Much more useful was the comment by the surveyor who suggested if I was worried about damp I should not buy a period house and that given this one had stood for 300 years it would probably stand for a while longer. He was also able to identify a couple of issues that would need fairly immediate attention, but reassure me that in general the house was sound.
   

In short, you stand a better chance if you can pursuade the agent from the start that you are a motivated, realistic and organised buyer. His loyalty is to the vendor and if there are two competing purchasers being the better prospect can make all the difference. This is a buysiness transaction. There is lots of sympathy for first time buyers, but you need to be businesslike.

One further tip. Be nice to the vendors. Be human and say you like their house and ask them about their life there. If they have loved living there they might be happier to sell to a young couple or a young family who will cherish it in the way they did.

[Superexcited]

Yes, as faded points out people who sell property at a profit that has not been their home have to pay capital gains tax.

The situation is shit for those trying to buy a home but if I was a seller I would be inclined to accept an offer from a cash buyer because it removes the hassle of mortgage applications not bring approved or the buyer fussing over minor survey issues.

[SurlyCue]

I'm in NI and its happening here too, even new builds are being snapped up by BTLers. It really isnt just london.

[JassyRadlett]

People who sell residential property they've not lived in have to pay capital gains tax, don't they?

That's true. It doesn't seem to act as a significant enough factor in levelling the playing field, though.

[CrystalSkull]

That's super advice, Needmoresleep.

[Pantone363]

We don't live in London. But that was super advice, thanks!

Low end house buyers don't have the money to do their houses up? I don't even know where to start with that... We would have significantly more money paying a mortgage and not renting. We wouldn't need all the renovations done for an immediate 3 month turn around, we would actually live in the house whilst turning it in to a family home.

needmore, thanks that's great advice. We are moving as quick as we can (30 mins from viewing to offer), FTB with mortgage and deposit, I don't see what else we can do.

[Pantone363]

A new development here has sold 70% of its stock, off plan, to a BTL investment company.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I think it is the fact you saw it 5.45 then finished the viewing at 6.10 then waited till 7 to make an offer. My last property I bought I saw it advertised on right move at 8.23, brand new listing, rang the agent and viewed the property by 9 and made a full asking price offer before we left.

In some markets you have to know exactly how your finances stack up and just jump. If you give yourself time to think then your opportunity is gone.

[Orrery]

There is surely no subject guaranteed to make my blood BOIL instantly than this one. Same in Cornwall, shit, shit, shittier, shittiest?

We also have the added 'bonus' of idiot hobby farmers, buying up what should be productive farming land and then doing shite all with it, whilst people who genuinely want to do productive things with the land here are denied planning permission and on and on and......

[mistymeanour]

WE did that too - viewed and made asking price offer on the doorstep at the end with a proviso to remove from the market. We were getting continually outbid, going to sealed bids, usurped before viewing etc We probably paid a bit over the odds but our mortgage offer was about to run out and we wanted a long term home so decided to take the hit.

[TheSortingCat]

OP I feel your pain. This happened to us and I cried. We loved the house and would have made into a lovely home as and when we could afford it.

We were also outbid on a couple of others by btl/developers, but they weren't as upsetting as this particular house.

I know the feeling of desperation and anxiety about whether or not you will ever get on the ladder.

But we did. We completed last week, and we weren't the highest offer. The vendor wanted it to be a family home, and so picked us.

I hope you have some better luck soon - homes should not be financial investments imvho.

[scarlets]

It happens in certain neighbourhoods in my part of Wales. Estate agents contact known investors with a verbal description before the property has even hit RightMove. It then appears on RightMove with the Sold STC signal already there and a note saying "sold on the first day! We need more like this".

The seller gets the deal after just one afternoon of inconvenience, the investor gets another decent asset, and the agent gets a hefty commission having conducted just a couple of viewings. But ordinary buyers must wait, again.

[wowfudge]

I have a different slant on this. We sold our last house to a FTB who had lost out in a bidding war on a place in the next street. The same EA handled both sales, knew she was a serious buyer with mortgage in principle and showed her round when the photographer was there. We had an offer before it was on Rightmove. 24hours later we had negotiated the sale at the price we wanted with that FTB.

[sianihedgehog]

I feel your pain OP, happened to us SEVEN TIMES. And I'm not even in London. We have eventually had an offer accepted, though, so there is hope!