Buying a house with old electrics

[AndWhenYouGetThere]

I have just received the results of the homebuyers survey on what-could-be my ideal first house. The survey found that the electrics are all original 1950.

I know pretty much nothing about electricity at all. Nothing! So-- let's assume I am clueless, because I am. I also know very little about the house buying process and do not want to make a mistake.

A little more background about the house- it's been rented out for the last 10 years and recently completely refurbished for sale. The refurbishment was the vendor's own DIY job - shabby but serviceable. I'm really hoping he hasn't DIY'ed any electrics! I would also "think" there needed to be electric certificates/tests (like a gas certificate) in order to rent out, bit it seems not.

Having seen the survey result, I passed on the recommendation to the vendor, that he needs to have a thorough check done by an electrician. He's refused.

Do I ask my solicitor to take up the cause and persuade him, pay for testing myself, or risk it? I know surveyors have to give worst case scenarious. Are 50's electrics as bad as they sound?

If there is a full rewire required (probably after 60 years, right?) I'd like to do that while the house is vacant - but is it possible before exchange? And would the vendor pay for this work. On a 50's 3 bed end of terrace, how expensive would this be?

Many thanks for any advice,

[Nyancat]

I recently bought a 1930s semi and had to have it rewired, some of it was original some more modern. It's a v messy job so if u can get it done before you move in I'd definitely recommend. Think floors lifted, wiring being tracked in, re plastering. But well worth doing. Ours took a week with 4 working on it and cost just over £3k.

You might be able to negotiate a reduction on price to cover the work. Can't imagine that the vendor would agree to do it himself. I wouldn't try to get it done before exchange for fear you'd pay to get the work done and then the vendor pull out or sale fall through and you be left with nothing.

[Nyancat]

Sorry should have said, take an electrician round to quote it now and then you'll know what needs done. That's how we went about it, got a quote early and then were able to line up getting the work done as soon as we c

[AndWhenYouGetThere]

Thanks so much for your help Nyancat. Is it pretty certain I need a rewire then? I'd love there to be an "electrics MOT" equivalent. However, I assume a quote would be free?
I definitely want to know what I'm dealing with with the house, before I buy, but is there any danger of the electrician "writing off" the house during this check? I may not be able to get the cash for a full rewire very soon (first time buyer, buying alone) - so should I risk buying anyway?

[PigletJohn]

I think you need to assume that it will need a complete rewire.

Rewiring a house costs the same as buying a second-hand car.

Assume that you will need redecoration and plaster patching afterwards. There is no reason to expect a good electrician to be a good plasterer. The work will be disruptive and very dusty if you are living in the house, it will be much quicker, easier and cheaper if it is empty and without carpets or other flooring, and preferably no large furniture. If there is a cat in the house he will hide under the floorboards and not come out.

Start by asking around friends, neighbours and colleagues for a recommended local electrician. For some reason Parish Magazine small ads are a good source. When you phone one, ask which Competent Persons Scheme s/he is a member of, is s/he a Domestic Installer, and how long s/he has been a member.

You can check on the scheme's website.
"Domestic Installer" is the lowest grade of qualificication and not considered very good.
If he has only just qualified he will still be learning and gaining experience. Let him learn on someone else's house.

Don't go by Yellow Pages and don't believe recommendations on a trades website. They are generally paid by the traders and recommendations may or may not have been written by the trader and his chums.

If you phone a non-geographic number, ask for their address before saying yours. There are clearing agencies who advertise as if they are local, using an 08** number, and farm your job out to anyone who pays them a fee.

You should use a firm which has a real-life local address and a local landline, not just a mobile. (none of this applies just to electricians)

[superlambanana]

There is an 'electrics MOT' - an NICEIC report. Will cost about £100ish and they'll fully test the whole system and give you a certificate with graded (by importance) improvements to do. The NICEIC have a list of registered electricians.

We've done this on both houses we've bought. Should be done at your expense, not the vendor's, like a survey. Don't do any work before exchange though! You may be able to negotiate a price drop with the vendor if it turns out to be £££.

[OnFoot]

We bought a late 50s house with original wiring and had a complete rewire done. No electrician would approve the state of the electrics it had but we wanted a rewire anyway before moving in. To us, it was worth doing at the outset as less disruptive to us that way as we would be replastering and painting anyway. Also, it gave us the chance to hugely increase the number of power points. If the electrics are really 1950s, then I doubt you have the number of sockets realistically needed now. The sitting room in our house had 1, yes one socket. Hugely overloaded with extensions - a fire risk most likely.

It will probably be cheaper than you expect and a recent rewire should be a selling point if you plan to move on in a few years, but you do need to factor in the costs of repairing the damage done to walls.

[Roshbegosh]

You will have to rewire and it will cost £3-5K and then you need to redecorate after all the channelling and there will be floorboards up. If you move the meter it's about £1K too. There won't be enough sockets otherwise, the news you have will not be safely sited and the fuse box will be out of date. It will definitely need doing though some people will say their granny still lives with 1950's wiring, but they might live with an outside toilet too. You must factor that in to any offer you make and personally I would prefer to oversee the wiring myself as you then choose where to put sockets, switches and how many and you need loads of them these days. Don't forget any outside lighting too.

[Blankiefan]

You will definitely need a full rewire - messy and expensive....

But - if you can negotiate the cost off your offer price and get it done before you move in, it's lovely to know its all safe and done and out of the way. We did it and it filled me with confidence that the house was safe. (would definitely suggest you get money off the house and employ the electrician yourself rather than getting the vendor to do it; ou don't know what corners he'd cut and I'd you do it, you can choose where plugs / switches go too).

This is going to come up as an issue with anyone looking to buy the house; if the vendor loses you, he'll still probably have to compromise on price anyway - and he'd have to wait for another buyer. Stand your ground - be prepared to walk away...

Good luck.

[peggyundercrackers]

i would risk it, the electrics wont be that bad as long as they haven't been messed about with by a DIY 'expert'. you will find you have a lack of sockets - fuse board wont have any breakers in it and the fuses will still have fuse wire in them - none of that in itself is a big deal - there is lots of people using these types of fuse boards/fuses.

[Viviennemary]

It sounds as if you will need a complete rewire. I agree with approx 2.5-5K for re-wiring. But bare in mind that re-wiring can make a dreadful mess of walls etc depending on the building.

[AndWhenYouGetThere]

Superlambanana, is there a difference between EICR and NICEIC? I've found out a little about the EICR which seems to be an "MOT type thing". The reason I'd like one is to persuade the vendor a rewire is requiered - he thinks the survey is just standard wording and scaremongering.

I will go ahead and pay for the EICR report before exchange. I've already paid much larger sums for surveys and searches already. Going for a period property, I've signed myself up for this, I think. I won't spend any on actual work though - it's not my house yet, you're right.

I'm hoping it will persuade him, but if it doesn't I'll probably still go ahead with the purchase, and after exchange and completion, delay moving in for a few weeks to allow for the work.

You're definitely right to advise against the vendor rewiring too. I wouldn't have thought about it without your post. But definitely judging on his painting and decorating skills, I wouldn't trust his electrics handiwork, or his choice of tradesmen! And it would be good to design and plan the sockets myself, too.

[AndWhenYouGetThere]

Yes, peggyundercrackers - you're right that it has wire fuses. I'm embarrassed to admit I'm old enough to buy a house and had never seen them before. It also has long round "dolly" switches for lights, some round pin plug sockets, and all the "modern" plug sockets don't have switches at all - so permanently on, I guess.

[wonkylegs]

We've just bought a house with old electrics. Its a big 5bed Victorian country pile with a mishmash of electrics from the 60s to the present day.
I've just had electricians round this week to quote for redoing the electrics so no idea as yet of costs.
We knew we'd have to spend money on them from the outset so factored this into our calculations as to what we could afford. We figured
A) they will now be definitely safe,
B) we can add sockets in the right place and of the right number (dining room has a single socket in the middle of the bay window )
C) we can get rid of the hotch-potch of dimmer switches (this house could have it's own museum exhibit - Dimmers through the Ages) and replace throughout with nice matching switches.
D) we could make it more energy efficient (of 70 lightbulbs currently fitted in the house 1 is an energy efficient bulb).
E) we can get hardwired smoke alarms fitted.

[PigletJohn]

round dolly switches are unsafe. Quite apart from being so old that their springs will have got weak and their contacts will be poor and liable to overheat, the covers can be taken off by hand (no tools required) to expose live terminals. This is especially dangerpous with young people in the house.

Rewirable fuses, again, are likely to be very old. If they still have porcelain fuseholders they will probably have asbestos pads in them.

Many people, when a rewirable fuse keeps burning out, like to "repair" it with a sturdy pioeve of fencewire, or a nail, meaning that instead of teh fusewire overheating and burning out, the house cable do. Sometimes the house burns down.

There will be no RCD protection which reduces the risk of electrocution and fires. I would not "risk it" as you are talking about the risk of losing your life and your family, never mind all your possesions and your home.

There will never be a better time to rewire a house than before you have moved in and redecorated it, put down carpets etc.

[greentea72]

1950s installation would definitely need a rewire, cabling could be old VIR covered type which disintegrates over time as well as Piglet Johns other comments, only benefit of getting it tested is to have a piece of paper which confirms this to the vendor and you could try and negotiate money off the asking price.

Get an electrician in to give you a quote for the works.

[AndWhenYouGetThere]

I'm going to get a quote for "necessary work" rather than an EICR then. The EICR will only tell me what you lovely experienced MNers already have done - that 1950's electrics need some work (in summary of PigletJohn and other posts - it's scary!)

The house is a bargain and the price reflects the fact it does need work. I love it, and would go ahead with the purchase even if the price isn't dropped at all. It might just take a few months but I'd find the money from somewhere for the rewire.

So I'm thinking now that it isn't worth getting the solicitor to ask for a price drop, as it risks the vendor just saying "no" and putting it back on the market. If I were him I wouldn't drop the price.

[PigletJohn]

An experienced electrician will know what needs doing within 30 seconds of walking through the door, so no point in paying for an inspection. It will not be worth the trouble of trying to patch up the old installation.

Just go for a complete rewire.

Sorry.

[AndWhenYouGetThere]

No need to be sorry - I appreciate your wisdom I'm clueless at all this.

I rang a few reccomended local electricians and they advised the same - any remedial work would be as expensive but not as effective as just rewiring properly now. Thanks so much for all your advice.

[RoseFlowerFairy]

I think you need to ask the Estate Agent rather than solicitor for a price drop OP.

[BMW6]

My 2 bed victorian terraced cost £2500 for complete rewire, bang up to the minute fusebox, sockets wherever we wanted in whatever amount.

Was the very first thing we did - ours hadn't been touched since the sixties - and for safety we saw it as the most essential expenditure.

We offered purchase price with that cost in mind (£8000 below asking price as bathroom and kitchen were in shite state too)

[flow4]

Yup, sounds like you need a complete rewire, as others have said. You have nothing to lose by dropping your offer by a couple of thousand; if he rejects the lower offer, you can then say you are willing to pay the original offer price if you can have access to do the work between exchange and completion. (That'll only work if you have the deposit amount).