What NC level would you expect from reading brown book band

[Zebee]

I have received DD yr2 report today, which I am very pleased with. However, I was surprised that she got a 2A in Reading. I realise that it is not all about what book band she is on but I would have thought a 3 was achievable. In itself yr2 SATS don't matter but I wonder if this is a sign that the more able readers aren't being pushed. Would you generally expect a child on brown (as in level after lime as I know there are other schemes) to be able to get a level 3 ?

[redskybynight]

Yes, but there's most likely 1 or 2 particular things at Level 2 that she hasn't done that have stopped her getting Level 3, and she is satisfying other elements of Level 3. One of the reasons that I'm glad levels have now gone (children getting artificially levelled at a lower level despite being very able at some elements of a higher level).

Either that, or you are in a 4-11 primary school and the teachers are assessing conservatively so they can show great progress in Y6 :)

[DiamondAge]

Why don't you ask her school whether she sat the L3 test and if so what her score was and whether she achieved L3 in the test. If not ask what her score was in her L2 test - e.g. did she only drop a point or two.

Some schools will not give a L3 if a child is teacher assessed as a 3c - even though they absolutely should.

As RedSkyByNight stated it's to ensure they can show good progress in KS2 and although levels have now ended the curriculum is harder going forward which perhaps won't encourage anything other than conservative assessments.

Of course reading bands don't necessarily indicate comprehension skills - but you know your child and if she's understanding what she reads well then why not have a chat with her teacher to find out why your DD's been assessed as 2a?

[xxxnikkixxx]

She was lucky to get level 2a. I wouldn't consider brown level" to be more able, I would say average! Just because she is reading brown level doesn't mean her comprehension is at that level, as I said she was lucky to get a 2a. What do you mean sats don't matter?? clearly she didn't get a level 3 (sats) and clearly she was not working at level 3. Most kids who get level 3 are probably free readers and they work at level 3 in class and obviously score level 3 on sats.

[Velociraptor]

It does seem a little odd. My DS is on lime, but got a 3, as well not making expected progress in reading this year apparently. Not sure how that works! I suspect it varies massively in different schools.

[Zebee]

DiamondAge good suggestion to ask her teacher thanks

xxxnikkixxx when I say SATS don't matter I mean that she is just 7 and in the large picture of her growing up and more specifically her education her yr2 sats are not significant but as I already have concerns about changes in her teachers part way through the year I wanted to know whether she wasn't reaching her potential.

[Zebee]

velociraptor that is what Google would suggest that Lime or Brown is working at level 3 so I was a little surprised that wasn't her level.

[mrz]

Whether she sat the level 2 or level 3 test doesn't really matter it's what she does every day in school that counts

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Not sure what xxxnikkixxx is talking about at all.

Brown is after lime and aimed at lower ks2. You are right that it roughly equates to level 3, OP. But it is a rough guide. A child that can read a brown level book fluently, or nearly fluently might not have all the comprehension skills needed to get level 3. For level 3 they need to be doing more than reading that sort of text and re telling it. It isn't necessarily a sign that the school isn't pushing children.

[mrz]

The problem is that some children read higher "level" books but sometimes struggle with the higher level skills they need to meet the criteria for the NC level

[Zebee]

Mrz in your experience what skills tend to be those that children can struggle with?

[xxxnikkixxx]

Exactly mrz! Just because a child is reading brown level (level 3) doesn't mean they are working at that level.

I have a question for everyone that don't agree with what I said, or don't understand me - so if reading brown level equals level 3, what level should a child get (at the end of key stage1) if they are free readers?

[xxxnikkixxx]

Comprehension is usually the problem

[FabulousFudge]

I wouldn't give a 'brown books' reader a 2A either. It'll be her comprehension. You need strong higher order reading skills such as inference and deduction to be awarded a L3. 2A is fine for Y2 though. Speak to her teacher as to why she wasn't a 3 and what you can do over the summer to support her towards this goal.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

What book band level does a free reader become a free reader?

I have no idea what level I'd give a free reader. It depends what comprehension skills they're showing. Anywhere between 1 and 8 maybe.

[mrz]

In some schools children are free readers when they've barely begun the reading journey in reality it's meaningless unless you're easily impressed

[hels71]

In our school you need to be a 3a/4c to be on Brown....

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

That may not have been an entirely honest question. In many schools they only band books to lime so the OPs child would be a free reader.

In one I know end of ORT 9 is free reader.

It's very dependent on what criteria different schools use to decide when children can move up a level too.

[hels71]

Oh, and our school.have no free readers. After Brown is black and that is meant to be for everyone 4b and over

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Free reader is a rather meaningless label.

Just had a thought. Are we all talking about the same brown here? There might be some slight differences between schemes and the fact that ORT has/had a set of with a brown spine which are lower than lime.

[mrz]

ORT brown is turquoise/purple

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Cliff Moon has a brown as well, which I think is even lower than that.

[DiamondAge]

OP stated brown that comes after lime, like this www.readingtargetcards.co.uk/schools-1/book-bands-by-nc-levels/
which shows the brown as 3b.

It seems perfectly reasonable to ask the teacher why her DD has been assessed as 2a. Apart from anything else she should then discover which areas need to be focussed upon when asking her DD comprehension questions during her home reading.

[mrz]

If you check out other publishers they put brown (that comes after lime) 2A/3C (variation between publishers) and only if child displays necessary skills beyond ability to read the words and recall what they have read

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

Isn't lime 'working towards level 3 in the banding book? Although I've occasionally seen it as 3c. Which would suggest 'brown after lime' is level 3ish.

2A doesn't seem a massive mismatch between decoding and comprehension given it's only supposed to be a rough equivalence.

[Zebee]

It interesting that the inside line (playground gossip) was that the teachers didn't expect any of the 8 or so on brown to get a level 3 so probably in DD school they move them up but are still working on some comprehension issues.

I will at least ask the teachers without feeling like I am overestimating her abilities. I just want to know she is being stretched without being hothoused. Interestingly ofsted felt they didn't stretch the more able children, maybe that is clouding my concerns that along with the fact that the class has had a number of teachers this year.