Girls in Year 2....not very nice

[lovely123]

Hi,

I am brand new to this forum as I desperately need some support.
My DD is in year 2 and if I had to sum her up it would be by saying she is adorable, caring, confident, clever and very sensitive.
I know this sounds biased but this is how she is...
The only issue is she gets bullied around by her class mates, always a specific group of girls that my DD wants to hang out with, there is about 5 of them.
I have told her to hang out with some of the other girls or even the boys but she always seems to want to gravitate towards these girls.
It breaks my heart when she tells me certain things, i.e. they didn't let me play with them today, they told me I wasn't going to be invited to a birthday party, they said she couldn't sit with them...etc etc

Basically it sounds like they gang up on her and will not let her join into to games, chats and make a fuss if she sits with them.
Apparently they have some sort of diary and when my DD asked them for a page they said no and they didn't want to rip anymore pages out.
It obviously affects DD but not enough to not want to go to school, when she tells me it breaks my heart though.

I have spoken to the school too but nothing changes and I guess it is very subtle bullying but nonetheless it is a form of bullying.
She has never really bonded with anyone since reception and it really worries me, especially since she is generally nice to be around.
I wonder if you guys can share your experiences and any advice as to how I should handle this?

Thanks X

[IsabelleAdjani]

I haven't really got any advice to give but I do sympathise as this would break my heart too. My DD is in YR1 and am surprised by how bitchy it is already - same sort of behaviour ie we won't play with you today, you can't come to my party etc. My DD has a group of about 4/5 friends that she has known since nursery but there does seem to be a lot of that behaviour about. Obviously I am biased about my DD as well but she is genuinely kind and sensitive and does not have an ounce of bitchiness in her, and I know it upsets her. I was thinking of having other girls outside her group over for playdates and have been encouraging her to make friends outside her group. I am trying to build her confidence and teach her how to be resilient as unfortunately she is going to encounter complete arseholes all through life, not just at school. I think what you are describing is very low level bullying so schools often can't be bothered to intervene unfortunately but I would try speaking to her teacher again as well. And big hugs as I know it is not nice! x

[SavoyCabbage]

I would really work on her other relationships. Neither she nor you can make these girls be her friend.

I've been through similar with my own dd. it it awful.

[Sapat]

My DD is also in Yr2 and struggles with the friendships. She doesn't understand the emotional manipulation. I got a class register and we went through it together, seeing who was friends with whom and who was part of a big group and then identified 3-4 girls that she should seek out at break time. It has helped a little bit. I think the girls whose social skills are not great are attracted to the popular groups, so this has helped my DD to find people to play with beyond that group.

[FelixTitling]

This is so common in y2/y3. It's the first time they come across it I think and it's heartbreaking to watch.

When it happened to my dd, it was the girl she considered as her bff and she just really couldn't comprehend what was going on. She kept forgiving the friend, and the other girls in the end and was a bit of a doormat for quite a while.

Gently though, we had to toughen her up a bit and encouraged her to have other girls round to play. She was lucky in that she had 'out of school' friends and cousins to play with and school were brilliant.

It's good that she's talking to you. Could you go back to school and speak to them again. It took a few meetings with teachers before they really took on the seriousness of it, but as I say, they were brilliant once they did.

[nonicknameseemsavailable]

my Yr2 daughter seems ok luckily but my Yr1 daughter has had a horrible time since she started in reception. Whilst her year has some lovely little children in it it has a very small hardcore group of horrible girls who pick on a small number of girls, her included. the group have been split up this year but of course that means she is in with some of the nasty ones still and whilst 2 have taken the opportunity to reform she is naturally very wary of them and one is still persisting with it and now recruiting a new sidekick from the sound of things. Comments about her hair (it is a bit different but she can't help that) are probably the main thing, claiming she can't read as well as she actually can are also a common one, general pushing when the teacher isn't looking, telling her she can't play with people when she is desperately trying to finally make some friends and so on.

I think you need to keep on at the school, it IS bullying but the bullies are notoriously clever and keeping it so it can't be seen.

I witnessed one of my children being physically bullied last year when I happened to be walking past the playground during break, the child had been cornered behind a tree so no staff could see! the school denied there was any bullying happening.

There ARE nice children out there but a small number always spoil it.

sorry that doesn't help but she isn't alone.

[justalittlelemondrizzle]

My year 2 DD has the same problem. There was a well established clique in Nursery but obviously wasnt as bad then but since Y1 its become a problem. Its not bullying it's more them being dismissive of her and sometimes mean. They occasionally let her play but other times they don't it, it depends which one is leading the game. There is one girls name which often comes up. She wrote DD a horrible letter in Y1 and I shown the teacher she wasn't much help at all and don't think she did enough about it.
DD has had 2 big birthday parties and has invited these girls and she never gets invited to theirs, even though her few good friends got invited who havn't had parties so all I can think is they have had whole class parties and excluded my dd.
It breaks my heart when I ask her who she has played with and she tells me she was on her own at playtime.
Its starting to become obvious to her now because her dd2 in y1 is going to parties almost every weekend and she isnt, same with playdates.
It's just a nasty group and such ashame for DD as she is lovely, caring and lots of fun.
Will be watching thread as I was going to post my own.

[shebird]

I have experienced these sorts of problems with both DDs. Unfortunately girls can be truly horrible to each other and these sorts of things like saying you can't join in the game or your not invited to a party are all too common at this age. I've found there is usually a queen bee amoungst the gang and the others just obey orders or they too find themselves outside the circle. As others have said the more she tries to be part of the gang the more they will push her away. It's like a control thing with them having little bit of power in the playground.
All I can suggest is to do all you can to encourage other friendships both in and out of school in the hope that your DDS will loose interest in these girls.

[moaningminnie2]

I don't think it is really bullying.

It is a social rule that your dd doesn't understand yet.You can't just target a person or group you are going to be friends with, and demand your way in

It wouldn't work in adult circles , and it doesn't work with children.You have to be friends with people who will be friends with you

[VermillionPorcupine]

Sorry but I don't think this is bullying. By year 2 lots of children will have formed friendship groups, and prefer each others company...you can't make them be friends with someone.

DS1 is in Year 2 and has a group of 4 friends...the 5 of them are very close. DS is the least mean child you could meet. He's very thoughtful, quite sensitive...but he wouldn't give much time to another boy that wanted to join his friendship group. He wouldn't be intentionally mean to them, i'm certain...but nor would he want to play with them. The five of them have been close knit since the first months of nursery, they have regular games that they play that they've set up around 5 people taking part, the teacher allows them to form a 3 and 2 when they need to pair up on trips because the fifth would be very upset to be left out otherwise...and afterall, they are only 6. By nature most 6 year olds are fairly self involved.

I think the best thing you could do would be to carry on in encouraging your dd to play with others and not try to work her way into what sounds like a tight knit group.

[MexicanSpringtime]

Sorry but I don't think this is bullying
This
It is heartbreaking, but your dd has to find some friends of her own. Friendship is a reciprocal thing, it cannot be unilateral.

[AmazonGrace]

I would plan on arranging for your DD to do other things outside of school,OP. Things like Brownies etc where she can mix with other children, some of whom may even go to the same school.

If I'm honest I'm pretty surprised at some of the replies. Yes, bonds form at school but to state that there seems to be an inclusive group where a game only involves a set number of dc, at 6, really? and I'm surprised that the teacher encourages this? In our school year groups get mixed up all the time and tbh I'm thankful for this, it encourages children to mix with others and this is something they have to get used to at secondary (or juniors) so it's good to be able to socialise with a wide mix of dc.

OP, perhaps you could have another word with the teacher. Maybe she can bring this up at carpet time? but in the meantime I would try extra curricular activities.

[MrsMinton]

Some schools have support at lunchtime to make friends. Social groups or clubs. It might be worth asking if this is available.

[AmazonGrace]

And if I'm honest I do think it's mean of the girls, saying things like you can't sit in such and place and 'you're not invited to a party'?

I think the life lesson the OP's DD will learn from this is that not all people are welcoming and kind in life, hurtful as it is, that is what I'd be explaining to DD and not that she can't 'demand her way in' as a pp put it. I don't see it as demanding her way in, I see it as she's trying to make friends.

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

It is heartbreaking, but your dd has to find some friends of her own.

Which presumably she will do by going up to other children and asking if she can join in with their games. What does she do if they all refuse to play because they already have friendship groups or their games can only be played by a certain number of children?

For her own benefit, I do think she should try and find other children to play with because these girls are a problem. But deliberately excluding other children in they way they are is a form of low level bullying and the school should at least be trying to deal with it. (Although that's a lot easier said than done).

[lovely123]

Thank you so much for taking the time to get your view across.
I have already tried a lot of the above but will give it another go and I do agree she needs to find friends of her own...I am hoping.
Another chat with the teacher is also a good idea, might approach that next week.
Xx

[Notinaminutenow]

...but he wouldn't give much time to another boy that wanted to join his friendship group. He wouldn't be intentionally mean to them, i'm certain...but nor would he want to play with them...the teacher allows them to form a 3 and 2 when they need to pair up on trips because the fifth would be very upset to be left out

Really Vermillion Sounds incredibly unhealthy to me at 6/7 to be in such a tight group that it permits no other child entry. Also what the hell is the teacher thinking facilitating this nonsense?!

In my experience children often learn this cliquey, excluding behaviour from their parents; parents who are relieved that it isn't their child being left out so they condone unkindness.

lovely I hope your DD finds some lovely friends soon. It is so hard to watch this but all you can do is be there to give them a cuddle when they've had a rubbish day, build their resilience and give them opportunities to make other pals. Also make sure the school deal with the bullying, however low level it seems.

[AmazonGrace]

Notinamin, I agree 100%.

Ds started at a new primary back in March. It actually makes me worry slightly that there are parents who seem to encourage this 'tight nit' group behaviour. If this happened in the adult world it's seen as 'cliquey', why should it be any different for children. I hope ds hasn't encountered this, he's just finding his feet and 'seems' well adjusted so far but there are instances when he comes home saying he played alone today. Another day he's played with everyone, so atm it seems to be hit and miss but still, he's happy so I'm happy.

OP, I would definitely go back and see the teacher. Nip this in the bud now and good luck

[HarveySchlumpfenburger]

I think I'd be more worried by a teacher encouraging it.

[VermillionPorcupine]

I've not encouraged him at all. I don't condone unkindness and neither does ds. The five naturally gravitated towards each other in nursery. It's not through chance (such as being on the same table) they're all of very different academic abilities - so sit at separate tables during class. They do different sports etc - they just found that they liked playing with each other. They get on well, they have a very good dynamic when all together. They wait for each other at the entrance to the yard at play time and go off together to play a game.

Ds is a sociable boy and will speak to anyone - he's not mean. But if there's class free time he wants to spend it with his friends and would decline a request to go and play with someone else. And anyone else trying to push their way into a group game with the 5 of them would probably just be ignored.

To say this is unhealthy or imply its somehow bullying is absurd and unfair. They're 6 fgs. 6 year olds that have their own special friends, that they have known and played with for over half of their life.

[NerfHerder]

If she knows they don't like her, why does she keep going back to them, trying to break into their friendship circle?

This is a useful book, that I have used with my DD who has Asperger's syndrome, and doesn't always 'get' social cues. It's a little Americanised, but I just said the words slightly differently when we read it together.

Does her school have a buddy system, where children who don't have someone to play with can go, and someone (children on a rota) will play with them, so they're not lonely.

[jaynebxl]

Has anyone mentioned play dates? These can help a lot in establishing friendships if you have 1 child over at a time.

[RaisinBoys]

"...anyone else trying to push their way into a group game with the 5 of them would probably just be ignored."

Sounds pretty unkind to me!

And I too am surprised that their teacher panders to them in the way you have suggested Vermillion.

OP - the individual play dates are worth a try. Good luck!

[figgieroll]

It is boarder line bullying because it involves exclusion. However your DD needs to gravitate towards different children instead if trying to hard to be a part of an unreceptive group

[figgieroll]

I would ask teacher to sit yourDD with some nice girls, away from the others in class so that they feel more bonded.

[AmazonGrace]

Vermillion, the OP has described the way the other girls act towards her DD when she approaches them, telling her that 'she can't sit there' or 'she's not invited to a birthday party' Are you honestly telling me that there's nothing mean at all about this situation. Yes, while I agree the OP's DD needs to gravitate towards other children, the way the group of girls act when she approaches them needs to be nipped in the bud now before it escalates into full blown bullying. Her DD doesn't 'push' her way in (as you describe it) rather she just wants to be friends and while she needs gentle persuasion to make other friends this group of girls also need to know that being unkind is not nice.