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New EYFS how does it differ?

(66 Posts)
simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 19:13:12


DD is currently in reception and all year she has been assessed on the old EYFS and parents have been told where their DC are according to the old assessments ie working at a point 6/7.

Their school reports have just come out and they have suddenly switched to the new EYFS which seems tougher and they are not awarding any DC an "exceeding" unless they have reached an NC level of a 2C, surely this can not be correct?

Also it now seems that certain things have not been covered (ie money and telling the time) as they were using the old EYFS iyswim so then no child got "exceeding" in numeracy because they have not been taught it hmm

Only one child out of a possible 90 got "exceeding"

Are there other areas that should have been taught that haven't if they have been using the old EYFS?

(Have meeting on Thursday, so want to get my facts straight!)

Alibabaandthe40nappies Tue 09-Jul-13 20:55:14

simpson I think your school have marked very harshly, on the basis of what you say about the reading.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:56:33

To answer your last post... please do find out if that's what's actually happened. Maybe I want to think the best, but I do wonder if any school could have been so dim as to do that.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 20:56:37

Mrz - if you had a child in your reception class who was on a level 1, would you say that had exceeded EYFS?

Also DD's teacher admitted she cannot assess on NC levels as she has never had to so would not be able to assess a 2C confused

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 20:58:33

There must be lots of Reception children who could achieve a Level 1. Particularly a 1c. But as it marks totally different things, I'm not sure they would necessarily get 'Exceeding' in the new system.

I will shut up now!

AbbyR1973 Tue 09-Jul-13 20:58:54

Only getting 1 exceeding out of 90 children sounds odd doesn't it- when you look at the report of the pilot it seems most areas had 10-20% exceeding with numeracy and writing being among the lower areas. If you took a really conservative estimate of 5% exceedings then out of 90 children there should have been 80 exceedings given out for the various areas(90x17x5%)
I reckon something has gone wrong at your school Simpson especially if DD was given exceeding then had it taken back again. I would question it. I imagine there is an advantage to the school of having fewer exceedings if they are showing progress at KS1... does anyone know are EYFS levels used to predict progress at kS1 sats?

DS got 10 exceedings incl numeracy I had a parents meeting with the teacher and she said he can order numbers to 100, count in 2s and10's and work out different ways to make 10p from coins etc (actually he can do more than this but this is what they have actually tested him on.) I don't think he has been "taught" money at school but has a money box at home and spends HOURS obsessing over how much is in it... maybe he will be an accountant!!

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:00:22

I agree wafflenose but if they haven't been using that secret list how can the child exceed it?

I do suspect I am going to get fobbed off though...

There are a lot of unhappy parents especially of kids who they have been told are doing fine and then got all emerging....

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:02:14

Wafflenose - don't shut up, the more POV I get the better!!

I was told back in December she was a 2B in reading (now 2A) and a 1A in writing (not sure now - but obviously not a 2C wink).

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:04:02

Abby - HT told me a couple of months ago that DD's targets for KS1 are already set...

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 21:04:46

Well you obviously need to get to the bottom of it. But ultimately, it WON'T matter for your DD. She will have targets within Level 2 for reading next term, and possibly writing and maths too. None of this is going to matter in September. They will take her on from where she is, and have to make sure she makes the right amount of progress.

mrz Tue 09-Jul-13 21:04:50

As you can see the expectations for the new EYFS are higher than the expectations for level 1 ... for level 1 a child needs to work with numbers to 10 for expected level in EYFS numbers to 20 hmm

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 21:06:11

well why do they have exceeds then if it is so unlikely a child is actually going to get it - they should just have

can't do it yet
can do it but might only just be able to or could be able to do it in 4 languages whilst standing on their head making pancakes

ie it really doesn't tell people anything except which children haven't quite got to grips with the basics yet which most teachers could probably have just assessed by spending a couple of days observing life in the classroom.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:06:44

Sorry MRZ blush

I know DD's target (EYFS) was numbers to 20.

It just makes me lose faith with the school a bit, that's why it's bothering me.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 21:07:19

hmm so thats fun then Mrz. you poor teachers must wonder what is coming then as that makes no sense...

mrz Tue 09-Jul-13 21:08:52

No it doesn't make sense but we may be getting a new EYFS soon confused

AbbyR1973 Tue 09-Jul-13 21:10:23

Simpson... the school's progress indicators are going to look rather marvellous if most of the group are emerging at end of EYFS and then go on to get an average 2B or more? Maybe I'm a bit cynical!!
I have done a bit of reading and haven't seem anything about money or time being mentioned... In Mrz list for exceeding- working with numbers to 20 it doesn't seem to say much about time and money?

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 21:20:51

Love this, Periwinkle:

can't do it yet
can do it but might only just be able to or could be able to do it in 4 languages whilst standing on their head making pancakes

You have summed up the three categories pretty well. At least, as our teacher explained them.

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 21:25:36

Abby - me neither but this is what the class teacher said.

I too have my cynical head on, but am sure the school will deny it!

I have a placement in a reception class (not DC school) and they have covered money when they learnt about pirates and then pirates dug for treasure. They had work sheets with various coins in a purse and had to add them up.

Don't know about whether they have covered time though...

tiredbutnotweary Tue 09-Jul-13 21:41:11

Ok, I hope this works:

FAQs on EYFS Profile assessment and moderation in 2013 – 2

I'm copying and pasting the whole FAQ but it is the final sentence that is key:

Should an LA inform their schools of the number of children expected to attain the expected or exceeding level of learning and development?
It would not be appropriate for any LA to give indications of the levels of attainment which may or may not be attained by any child/cohort at the end of the year. Schools should base their assessments on all the evidence available for each unique child.

Neither should any additional prerequisite (such as a child must be at KS1 L2 to be awarded exceeding) be applied to any TA judgement against an ELG.

This is what a school should do to determine exceeding:

Where a child’s development exceeds that set out as that expected at the end of the EYFS, attainment should be recorded within the EYFS Profile as being at the exceeding level for that ELG.
To judge whether a child’s learning and development is exceeding, practitioners should use the best fit model and be confident that the child has moved beyond the expected level.
Practitioners should:
• consider the Key Stage 1 attainment targets and level descriptors;
• refer to exceeding descriptors (sourced from the Tickell review) which are provided in Annex 2 of this handbook; and
• discuss with Year 1 teachers whether to deem a child exceeding in any ELG.

For a comparison of the expected, exceeding and NC L1 requirements see here:

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 21:50:36

Thank you for sharing the list which appeared to be 'secret' in our school!

They are expecting a lot now, aren't they? No wonder so many children aren't at the 'expected' level - as far as I can tell in our school, the setup of the class and the teaching don't appear to have changed, but the children are expected to demonstrate so much more!

I think I can see now how my DD who's incredibly imaginative and artistic didn't exceed expectations here... it's all about reflecting on the thought processes, explaining how she created things and how art can be changed, comparing different ideas and pieces of work, and discussing the strengths of others... heck.

Periwinkle007 Tue 09-Jul-13 21:58:29

yeah just the sort of art critic skills a reception child will have!

I think they have missed the point of it though, I mean exceeding shouldn't BE completely impossible, it shouldn't be things they can't possibly have been taught or had the opportunity to develop or in the case of the odd few who might have, the opportunity to demonstrate. I mean how many reception classes sit and discuss art like that? do they? really? how would a teacher know if a child COULD do that in many cases.

tiredbutnotweary Tue 09-Jul-13 22:08:11

I think mrz posted the expected descriptor for maths, to be exceeding you need this too:

Numbers: Children estimate a number of objects and check quantities by counting up to 20. They solve practical problems that involve combining groups of 2, 5 or 10, or sharing into equal groups.

In our school they are struggling to give some children expected in maths due to the doubling, halving and sharing that is in mrz post. But that's because they are approaching the assessment with a tick box mind set - it's supposed to be best fit - the profile handbook clearly says a child doesn't need to meet every requirement of a goal to the same level ....

simpson Tue 09-Jul-13 22:14:59

What does "using key features of narrative" mean? (In writing)

I agree some of them are pretty tough for 5 yr olds ie managing friendships, art & design.

But some of them seem basic to me ie listening & speaking.

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:16:04

Agreed again, Peri! She just turned 5 six weeks ago! I don't think they go into that kind of discussion at all. She has just won the House Art Competition for her age group though, so she is really happy, and I don't actually care! What I'm really proud of is the fact that she is bang on target socially and emotionally, having started school verging on Selective Mutism, shy, overly sensitive, throwing toddler tantrums, and generally very immature. In this respect, Reception has been brilliant.

Ultimately it probably doesn't matter too much what scores they are given, as long as they're learning, but I can see why people will be upset. Teacher has reassured me DD2 is bright (in a nice, solid, above average way - she's not G&T as far as I can tell) but her scores make her look average. And lots of DC who are doing perfectly well are going to look like they're not!

Wafflenose Tue 09-Jul-13 22:17:17

Oops, I meant I don't care about her level, I obviously do care that she has put a lot of effort into her picture and won a prize for it!

tiredbutnotweary Tue 09-Jul-13 22:21:57

To elaborate on this point a bit further, I don't think the problem lies in the descriptors so much as some LAs / schools deciding that every criterion must be met to meet expected or exceeding. It IS NOT supposed to work like that.

A best fit (as described in the handbook) is supposed to be which of these descriptors best fits this child for the majority of their work / output / discussion. The decision of the best fit is also supposed to include evidence from other sources including parents. Of course, in Periwinkle's case, how could any parent support their child in achieving these goals if all year they've been supplied different and defunct goals? I'd be hopping mad.

I think the reason for the big hike in the EYFS and another reason some LAs are being very conservative is that the new national curriculum is also tougher and any exceedings now should equate to L5s / 6s for a curriculum that isn't even in place yet for demonstrating progress. I would find this more palatable if all schools / LAs were taking the same approach - but they're not.

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