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Not being told of punishments in incidents of violence.

(11 Posts)
CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Thu 18-Apr-13 22:14:35

Why is it the case now that the parents of the victim of bullying or an incident of a violent nature never get told what the bully / agressor's punishment actually IS?

I can't see that this would be acceptable in, say, an ABH case in court, where you as the victim weren't told whether the agressor had gone to prison, got community service, or been going not guilty.

So why is it ok for parents to have to deal with very upset DC's with no way of reassuring them that their aggressor received an appropriate punishment?

And more to the point, why do schools not have to follow a set procedure on how long punishments should have to be?

I am finding it extremely hard to placate my DS's after bullying incidents when my DS1 especially is unable to be told that X got 2 days off the playground, or he got a week's exclusion, or whether nothing actually happened.

He HATES school now, because not only does he get bullied, but he has seen what looks like no punishments happen to his aggressor, and in fact when I complained to the Deputy HT after one very violent incident, I was told that the school 'couldn't' punish him for the wounds he had inflicted on DS1 because he was 'going through a tough time at home'.

Now I guess what I am asking is WHY is this the only arena in our lives where there is no expectation that the victim should know what punishment their aggressor has received?

What is the reasoning behind this decision?

And how do you square this with making the victim of aggression feel safe at school and have trust in the school that incidents like that will ALWAYS be seen to be dealt with appropriately, regardless of the aggressor's 'home life'?

I just can't get my head around this tbh. And neither can my poor DS1. And I would like to be able to help him do so.

prh47bridge Fri 19-Apr-13 00:45:53

This is not the only area where the victim doesn't know the punishment received by their aggressor by any means. In a case of bullying at work, for example, the victim will often not be told what punishment has been given. There are data protection and privacy issues involved.

learnandsay Fri 19-Apr-13 09:55:36

But the school, or the work place can have a discipline policy and everyone can read that.

Startail Fri 19-Apr-13 09:59:28

I'm assuming it's a big school as at our's you'd just see the bully stuck in their class or know they weren't at school.

wonderingagain Fri 19-Apr-13 10:20:30

Why? Because they are children not adults.

Try to get school to talk to both of you together so he can see he is supported. and they know you are keeping a close eye on them

lljkk Fri 19-Apr-13 10:34:21

It's not a legal process, you don't have legal rights. Also, even when you think you know the punishment in the courts you don't because so many factors can change how it gets implemented. Plus, Punishment is only useful if it works to deter repeat offence.

Forget about punishment; but you have every right to ask the school what are they doing to prevent the bullying from happening again. You can go into great detail on that one. Make your concern about what happens to your child, not about the fate of other kids.

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Fri 19-Apr-13 11:37:35

Lljjkk - I'm happy about making it all about what the school is doing to protect DS1.

It is DS1 that is getting VERY angry that he cannot see any punishments happening, as he feels that a visible punishment will deter his bully.

How do I deal with that when it is DS1's sense of 'justice' not being seen to be done that is upsetting him just as much as the bullying in the first place?

No amount of me telling him that the school will have done what they think is best in the situation is stopping him from getting very angry that HE can't see any punishments happening to his bully.

So how do I deal with that?

School's bullying statement states that bullying has to be 'persistent' to be bullying. What this means in reality is that as far as the school are concerned (as told to me after an incident by my DS2's CT last year), it is only bullying if it happens 'every day'.

So not very supportive of incidents happen once every couple of months from YR to halfway through Y6, simply because they aren't happening daily.

They won't even record these incidents AS bullying, because as far as they're concerned, as it's not happening every day, it can't possibly be bullying...

CouthySaysEatChoccyEggs Fri 19-Apr-13 11:39:34

I want to know how to stop my DS1 from being so angry when HE can't see a punishment being given to the bully.

lljkk Fri 19-Apr-13 16:39:12

Then the school have a duty to convince DS that he will be safe.
I dunno about dealing with anger. Seeking retribution doesn't seem to make anyone happy, ime.

How old is your DS & his bully? Because I think they're both children & children do stupid things which is why we try to teach them to do better and not stay mad at them forever.

zipzap Fri 19-Apr-13 17:04:58

I would complain in writing to the school about the long term persistent bullying that your son is experiencing, acknowledge that whilst it isn't daily it has happened on a regular monthly basis for the last 6 years (or whatever it is) and that this is a regular persistent pattern of bullying and victimisation of your son by one (?) individual, that the school is choosing not to acknowledge but that is having serious detrimental effects on your son and you would like them to pull their socks up and do something about.

Persistent does not mean very frequently - it means lcoming back repeatedly. Which is obviously happening in this case. I would also complain about them refusing to record the incidents - because that obviously works in their favour as if nothing is recorded as bullying they can pat themselves on the back for not having a bullying problem when they do. And most bullies are going to spot the loophole in their rules pretty quickly and have a set of victims rather than just one so they get the buzz from bullying but it isn't seen as such by school.

I'd also make sure you have a list of outcomes that you would like included - it being made clear to the victim that the bully is being punished even if they can't say what it is, a nominated individual to deal with regular but not every day bullying, school to step up anti bullying policies, help for the victims etc. check on some of the anti bullying websites for proper ideas of things to stick in this bit - I'm guessing whereas they will know things that work.

And when you're finished I'd also make sure you send it to the governors and local council education officer.

It's worrying about your son and his anger, not least because you suspect that if he is bullied again and flips and manages say to hit the bully back, you get this feeling that they won't have any hesitation in coming down on him really hard and everybody will get to know about it.

Not sure what to do sorry other than see if the anti bullying sites have any advice and show your son that you are standing up for him 110% through all this.

Good luck - hope the school sorts this out properly.

Wellthen Fri 19-Apr-13 19:59:20

I think an important point needs to be made to your son: What do you want to happen?
A) the bullying to stop
B) Your bully to be punished

Of course they aren't mutually exclusive but equally B does not necessarily lead to A. I would suggest to your son that the school may be doing their best to achieve A. If he is focused on punishments rather than outcomes this suggests he is still feeling a need to get revenge and needs support to get over this emotion. It is natural to want to hurt someone who has hurt us. But it isnt the right thing to do.

Disclaimer: as a general rule I think children should be punished in line with the school policy no matter their 'homelife' except in the case of SEN. At my school sharing the punishment with the victim is seen as an important part of repairing the situation as all parties feel they have been delt with faily.

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