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Why are teachers saying that ds can't do number bonds up to 10, when I know he can?

(37 Posts)
StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 10:39:43


I have checked and checked his concepts, his understanding, and his rote ability and it's obvious he has had this skill for quite some time and yet his teachers are saying that this is his target until Christmas.

Why can't they see what I see? What more is there to it?

'ds' if there are 10 lanes on a motorway and 4 are going in one direction, how many are going in the other direction?' Correct reply.

'ds' which two groups of beads go together to make a group of 10?' Correct reply?

'ds what is 10 - 5?' correct answer

Why are we so out of sync?

fwiw he has ASD, - but I'm not sure that is relevant here.

LindyHemming Wed 10-Oct-12 10:46:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rosebud05 Wed 10-Oct-12 10:48:55

What year is your ds in?

scaevola Wed 10-Oct-12 10:50:54

I think it means he's not doing it in class, and a teacher can only judge by what they see. So perhaps the conversation you need to have with the teacher is how to find a way to get him to use what he knows wherever he is. ASD could be relevant to this.

diplodocus Wed 10-Oct-12 10:53:01

WE had a similar issue last year with our DD. I think she just gets stressed in class and makes errors or says anything just to take the heat off - particularly in things like number bonds that they tend to do out loud. She can do a lot more at home generally than in school, and I'm just hoping she'll chill out a bit more if we try to build her confidence so she can do the same at school. school.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 10:59:32

year 1

steppemum Wed 10-Oct-12 11:03:08

actually his asd might be relevant. Does he get sensory overstimulation? Is he finding the classroom noisy? Could it be that he actually can't do this at school because of the background noise?

Not saying that is the reason, just wondering about the possibilities. (and if any if the above is the cause, can he wear ear defenders?)

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 11:24:38

no. There's 6 in his class and he was tested 1:1.

I can't work out what is going on.

steppemum Wed 10-Oct-12 11:33:47

Go in and talk to teacher. Tell her what you told us. Take the approach that you are not sure why he can't replicate it in class?

Can you talk to him about it? Maybe he can through some light on it.

silverfrog Wed 10-Oct-12 11:38:18

school are clearly not seeing this shown in class. you know this is a typicsl situation.

your ds has not been at this school for long, and has had some other major changes recently too, so it is not unusual for classroom ability to not be shown to utmost.

however, I would want the target to be along the lines of 'ds to reliably demonstrate understanding of number bonds to 10' or similar, just to placte me that schol were listening when I said 'but (s)he can do this already' - otherwise it would feel a bit been there/done that/t shirt long worn out!

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 12:15:00

Thanks silverfrog. Honestly, the post here sounds like this it is some major barrier but I'm relieved that this kind of thing is all I am worrying about now.

I posted here on the main board because I wanted to get a 'normal', sensible perspective before I slipped back to the dark place and felt I had to march my child out of the school never to return.

I 'think' I have guessed the problem actually.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 12:20:33

stepmum, his school doesn't seem to like face to face very much and prefers to communicate in writing, - which they do do in detail and timely.

But I need to reset my school-interface-collaborator to make sure that I deal with this (or even work out if I SHOULD be dealing with this) in the best way.

So thank you. I have asked that he be tested again and that they forbid him to use his fingers to help this time. I 'think' he descends into finger-flicking withdrawal which looks like he is thinking and doesn't know the answer, when in fact he is just stimming.

silverfrog Wed 10-Oct-12 12:46:03

Star, you are right to question anything you don't understand/feel is right. what will change is how you question it grin

you, as well s ds, are new to the school. it will take a bitof time for you to 'get' how they do things, and during that time, you will still feel on edge - are they overlooking htings? do they really 'get' your ds? are they wanting to pidgeon-hole him? and so on.

I am 3 years further down this road than you (as in dd1 has been in a decent school for 3 years now), and I still question stuff.

the hardest bit I found was the letting go. for 5 years I had been the only person to understand dd1 fully. the only one to know the full range of her skills, and the only one to reliably be able to tell when she was taking the piss, stimming, or just didn't know the answer. (as wll as one of the very few who actually expected anythign of her)

now I have to accept that school know dd1 as well as I do - the difficult bit is that they know a completely different dd1 than I do! she is in a totally different environment, with totally different people - and she is (not totally, but substantially) different. and so these days IEP meetings are two way - I have to listen to school as much as they have to listen to me wrt dd1's targets, because what I know/see daily is not what they know/see daily at times. and so their appropriate target may be too easy in my eyes, and my appropriate target may be unachievable (for now) in their eyes.

the race is off to a certain extent now - your ds is in a good place, with skille dstaff. you can ease up on the pedal for a bit, and let the experts do their stuff. but it is very scary doing so, I do know that.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 12:53:24

They didn't include me in the IEP Silver. They just set it.

But you're right wrt everything you say. It's possible that the IEP is actually, in the school he is in, a bit irrelevant, as they follow the cop version of 4 targets, one for each area etc. when quite frankly my Ds has bigger problems than counting up to 10 iyswim.

silverfrog Wed 10-Oct-12 13:00:43

yes, I know wrt IEP non-inclusion. dd1's school send us out her targets, then we meet after to discuss.

we got her targets at the beginning of term, I have yet to get a date for our meeting (will be begining of december, as will combine with statement review), and by the time the meeting comes around, we will get an updated version of her targets, with progress filled in. and the utcome of our meeting (as well as being the statement review stuff) will be incorporated into next term's targets. it sounds really slow-to-repsond when written down, but it works.

dd1's IEP is not an IEP either - is a multi-page list of targets across areas and curriculum. maybe your ds' IEP is 'only' for Ofsted/paperwork purposes (in a good way!).

my dsd used to go to your ds' school. back in the day, as well as the IEP/termly targets (which did always seem a litlle wishy-wash, now I come ot think of it) dh used to get seriously in-depth specialist reports, containing good information. but it was not info that could be shown in a standard progress way, or on a standard cop layout.

Bonsoir Wed 10-Oct-12 14:05:31

I am reluctantly coming to the conclusion that teachers are quite capable of setting targets for children's achievements that are already within their existing skill sets in order not to have to do any work with some children...

Chocciechoc Wed 10-Oct-12 19:04:32

Number bonds up to 10 include ways of making 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 & 9; does he know all these?

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 19:18:50

Choccie, oooh, no idea. I suspect so but not tested.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 19:23:34

Bonsoir, I think it is probably to do with not knowing HOW to educated these kids but being scared to admit it and alleviating guilt by knowing if they can just somehow get through this year, the next teacher might know what to do.

exoticfruits Wed 10-Oct-12 19:24:24

Maybe it is speed-I played ping pong as in ping, pong -4,6, ping,pong-3,7 etc and it was supposed to be as fast as table tennis.

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 19:27:51

I tested number bonds to 10 against a clock. 15 correct in a minute and 1 error.

Just up to 10 though.

I suppose it coukd be a language thing. I asked him if there were 10 cakes and I had 3, how many woukd be left for him and he hadn't a clue.

He can do it for motorways but not cakes it seems.

HumphreyCobbler Wed 10-Oct-12 19:27:57

My ds does not demonstrate his knowledge in school. He knows his number bonds with ten and up to ten. He has done for about a year. But for some reason he chooses not to share this information with his teachers.

I wish I knew why.

mrz Wed 10-Oct-12 19:34:11

I expect my Y1 class to get 17 correct in 30 seconds

StarlightMcKenzie Wed 10-Oct-12 19:37:33

Mrz, thanks. I'll aim for that. He's doing it with cards (visual) with one number on the front and the other on the back so there is some lag from sifting and turning to check perhaps.

Do you say the first number for a verbal response only?

mrz Wed 10-Oct-12 19:38:13

I expect mine written

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