Parents evening disaster

[Pumpkinsandpickles]

DD is in YR3 at the local primary school. Just had parents evening and it was awful. Teacher said one nice thing about DD (which wasn't school related) and then it was all negative.

DD is a bright but doesn't like to show it sort of child. She clearly has ability and this is evident when you speak to her, but from her school work you wouldn't know it. She has always been a bit of a day dreamer and really needs to be pushed (which I understand is difficult with a class of 30). I feel like the teacher has written her off. She told me, when I asked if she is being given work that is to her ability or to what she shows, that she doesn't give her as much or challenge her as much as others as she doesn't finish it. I made the point that maybe it might be worth giving her work which she is capable off and might be a challenge to get her more interested as this is what happened last year and it worked (I wasnt rude or telling her what to do but just a suggestion).

She is now referring her to the SENCO. I asked why specifically but she said no specific reason, just to see if there was anything that came up as she doesn't know what else to do.

DD has been really unhappy since starting year 3. She was split from her best friend which has made her upset but there is more to it. She has even suggested changing schools which worried me as she is only 7 and shouldnt be thinking like that.

Any suggestions for an emotional mess of a mother who is worried and at a loss for how to help.

Thank you if you got this far!

[wobblypig]

Has this ever been mentioned before? Is there any other reason that she may be unhappy at school/in class ; bullying?

[IndigoBell]

Loads of kids are very 'bright' verbally, but unable to write to the same standard. It is a very big problem.

How was her written work last year?
Does she ever write at home for fun?

Does she concentrate in class? Does she have poor handwriting? How's her reading? Her spelling?

When you say 'bit of a daydreamer' - how much? Enough to mean that she struggles in a classroom environment? Enough to mean it's a problem that should be looked at?

If she's being referred to the SENCO, maybe the teacher suspects one of the above is causing her difficulties?

Before looking to blame the teacher, try to find out how much is your child, how much she differs from her classmates. Because if the problems are her (her handwriting, concentration, reading, vision, hearing..........) - then they won't go away.

[BranchingOut]

In most classes I have taught, there have been one or two children who are 'bright' but just don't get it down on paper.

They may be slow to begin their work, lose time daydreaming or faffing around sharpening their pencil etc, or just write incredibly s-l-o-w-l-y. I have taught a number of children who have no specific issues, but who just move as if they are walking through treacle... :) Some children get so hung up on the neatness of their work that they progress letter by letter, or go back and rub lots of it out if they make a tiny mistake.

The problem is that most pieces of work, especially in Literacy, often build upon each other. So one day you might get the children to write a paragraph or two describing the setting for a story, the next day you look at how to enrich your writing with adjectives and make it more exciting, then you plan the events of your story and finally write the whole story. At that point, the children who have done the preparatory work can really fly, whereas the child who never quite got going on their description and the other exercises is going to be struggling.

They may be bright, but because they are repeatedly losing the opportunities to practise their skills, they are not developing their abilities.

What can work is:

Personal reminder by teacher or TA to get straight down to work. Simple, but not always easy to do in a class of 30.

Some form of sanction for not completing work eg. complete during playtime. Not popular I know, but can sometimes be effective if there are really no other issues to bear in mind and it is simply sheer dreamy-ness or a refusal to get started.

Upping the stakes - telling the child that their work is going to be shared with the class later.

Getting them to do their work in a different format eg. working on the computer, recording their voice.

[Pumpkinsandpickles]

Thank you for your replies.

wobblypig - We have had the problem of not completing work throughout infants so it isn't a new problem but last year her teacher was able to help her and seemed to click with her which really helped. We have really thought about whether she is being bullied. A lot of her behaviour is the sort that you could see with a child that was, but we have talked to her (without actually mentioning 'bullying') and I don't think she is. I just don't know why she is so unhappy there.

IndigoBell - I don't specifically blame the teacher. It may have come across that way as last night I was so upset. I do think the teacher has something to do with it as last year her teacher did help her work better and concentrate more. This teacher is completely different and doesn't have that same 'push' that DD needs. Her written work at school really isn't very good. There are some lovely pieces in there, which shows she can, but on the whole it is messy. You can read that the ideas are there, but often there isn't much actually written. I do wonder sometimes if the ideas come too quickly for her hands as there is scribbling out all over the place. She got a 2A for writing in her YR2 SATS so she clearly can write ok. She does write at home for fun but it certainly isn't her first choice of activity.

Her reading is very good. She got a level 3 in her SATS and she LOVES reading. Her spelling is ok I think but we don't have weekly spelling sent home or anything for me to check against. From what I can see from her work she has ok spelling and words she doesn't know she does phonetically spell.

I think what you said about her concentration, or lack, being bad enough to be looked at is probably the main problem and what the teacher is looking at. She is ok if there is someone there to remind her to work but the teacher seemed to be saying that they are given work and the time to do it and left to it. It probably isn't quite like that, but that is how it sounded. What could the SENCO be looking for in this situation?

BranchingOut - A lot of what you have said seems to sound very much like DD. I am going to go through your post and take some notes from it as it really does sound like it is her. They have tried sanctions, ie keeping her in to finish work, but it doesn't seem to work very well. I have suggested sending all the unfinished work home and I will sit her down and make her to do it before we do any 'fun' activities at home. This way I know she is doing it but also I can see how bad the situation is.


I have spoken to a friend who is a teacher and who knows DD (and who knows the school but not speficially the teacher). She says that from what she knows of DD, she doesn't think the SENCO will find anything and that DD could do with speaking to someone else about why she is so unhappy etc that is not us or her teacher (ie someone detached from the situation).

Thanks again for taking the time to read the rather long post!!

[IndigoBell]

Very bad concentration can indicate ADD-PI (ADHD - predominantly innatentive ).

This is when a child is not hyperactive at all, but just can't pay attention to what they should (in most but not all situations).

First thing I'd be doing if I was you was getting her on a good Omega Fish Oil (one with high EPA and low or no DHA) and Zinc and Magnesium

Then I'd cut out as much sugar and e-nums / additives from her diet as I could.

These simple dietary changes can have a huge effect on a child's concentration ( I'm speaking from experience here . I thought my child's diet was fine and normal. It wasn't )

I would (and did) make these dietary changes even if I didn't think my child had ADHD - but they just had concentration issues.


There are other things you can do as well. Poor writing could indicate a number of other (but related) minor problems. (Poor gross motor skills, poor fine motor skills, poor visual perception.....)

But I'd start with improving her diet, and researching ADD-PI.

[dolfrog]

Pumpkinsandpickles

Being in Year 3 means that children have passed through the age of maturation, or when they stop growing out natural development issues, and the remaining issues can being to be clinically diagnosed as disabilities.
Those who tend to tend to be daydreamers are those who may have lost the plot due to an attention deficit, or an auditory processing disorder (listening disability). Which can lead to word recall problems (tip of the tongue) which in turn may explain the crossings out when trying to use alternative words or phrases. These problems can cause a lack of confidence, and in some cases be the cause of a need for life long reassurance regarding using the correct words and explaining a topic so that others can understand. And this lack of confidence also creates problems starting a new task, sometimes not knowing how to start, or understanding what may be required or expected.

[Pumpkinsandpickles]

Definitely going to look at diet - already cut out sweets etc and will take it a step further and look check everything.

Will be looking into fish oils - don't know if she will want to take this as have heard its not too nice and we are vegetarian so she isn't used to fish in any way shape or form! But if it will help I will try!

Also, she has suspected IBS (still being seen my pead after chronic constipation and now further investigation. also seen dietician as she is short and light for age but they said she was ok). The IBS / constipation has a major affect on her and when in pain, she struggles to concentrate on anything.

[betterwhenthesunshines]

I've just bought some Omega 3 in liquid form. I have given up in the past as neither of my DC would chew the plasticy capsules that pop in your mouth - yuk! But this one I keep in the fridge so it's cold too which I think helps reduce the flavour, and so far, so good...

[IndigoBell]

If she's vegeterian she def needs to be on Omega Fish Oil. 20% of your brain is made up of EPA - very hard to get if you're veggie.

If she has other digestive problems, you're starting to paint a very familiar picture.

It's all related :(

If she has something wrong with her digestion, then she'll be even more sensitive to sugar and additives and stuff as they won't be absorbed properly and may be entering her blood stream and causing all sorts of issues. :(

Symptoms of 'leaky gut' include 'foggy brain' and 'poor working memory' :(

[BranchingOut]

I have never come across the 'age of maturation' concept being used in schools, Dolfrog. Do you have any more info about it?

[lljkk]

I am a bit confused how she could suddenly seem to have so many problems if it's a structural thing (like leaky gut). And ADHD doesn't usually come on at this age, either (does it?)

[madwomanintheattic]

it hasn't just 'come on'. this is a child who has been having difficulty concentrating throughout school and is a bit of daydreamer. this is the point where this would start to be more obvious - she is expected to do a bit more work and work more independently. it's exactly the point at which add-pi or similar would be more noticeable.

[dolfrog]

BranchingOut

You may have noticed it when talking about the age for Developmental Dyslexia assessments which will only happen after 7 years of age. Developmental Dyslexia has a genetic origin, and has three cognitive subtypes auditory, visual, and attentional. Which means that an auditory processing disorder (listening disability) a visual processing disorder, or an attention disorder, or any combination of the three can cause the dyslexic symptom. This issues will always be there but until the age of 7 / 8 years of age (age of maturation) children can still grow out of these types of issues as part of their natural development. As we all develop different skills and abilities at different ages and different rates until then. So the problems will have always been there but it is only until after the age of maturation that a clinical diagnosis can be provided.
You might like to have a look at Mapping brain maturation. which is also included in this research paper collection Brain Development and Maturation
Schools and education need to move away from the old behaviorist views of the world from the 1980s and move into the current world of neurobiology and genetics, which is beginning to define how we learn and some of the cognitive barriers some of us may have in the learning process.
The age of maturation should also be the age at which formal education begins as in they leading countries, like Scandinavia. Give the children time to finish thew cognitive development, and developing some alternative compensating skills for their cognitive deficits and / or disabilities before formal education begins.

[dolfrog]

lljkk

for "leaky gut"
have a look at
The mind-body-microbial continuum
and my Gut, and Psyche research paper collection.
and with regard to ADHD have a look at
The history of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder
and CiteULike Group: Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD)