SATS results

[verybusymumofthree]

Hi my eldest has just completed their optional year 5 SATS and has achieved a 4b in reading and writing, 4b in English, 4C in Maths and 4A in science. Are these results on target for when my child takes their year 6 Sats next year? My child achieved level 3s in maths and english at the end of year 2.
I would be grateful for any words of wisdom!

[treas]

Yup your dc has done really well - by the end of year 5 the level to reach is 4b. Thus working on the principle that children usually improve by one or two subdivisions in a year your dc could be looking at 5c minimum.

[hockeyforjockeys]

If they got 3s in Year 2 then they would expected to get 5s at Year 6. Science (which is no longer tested other than in a few randomly selected schools for monitoring purposes) and English are on track, maths is a little bit behind however because of lots of revision and test practise (not all schools I know) lots of children make a lot of progress in Year 6.

However I just want to add that SATS results mean sweet fa in actually showing what a child can do. Is their teacher satisfied that these results reflect what they produce in their normal work, because that is actually what matters.

[lovecheese]

What do you mean by 4b in english?

[hockeyforjockeys]

treas Can I just emphasise that a 4b target is for children who have acheived a level 3 in Year 2, before we have lots of people going into panic mode about their child. I would expect an average ability Year 5 child to acheive a 3b-4c by the end of Year 5.

[Teachermumof3]

by the end of year 5 the level to reach is 4b

Actually, Treas-the target for the end of Year 6 is a 4b.

If your child got level 3s in everything at the end of Y2, they will have been on target for level 5s at the end of Y5, but children stop making sufficient progress-these targets can be revised.

In KS2, children ideally progress by 1.5 sublevels (yes, I know!) each year, so you may be looking at level 5s in some areas, particularly science, and possible reading/writing. :)

[IndigoBell]

You are probably looking at a 4 in Maths and a 5 in English next year.

Depends on how much progress he makes next year, and how many 'booster' classes etc your school does.....

But of course, these are only predictions.....

[Feenie]

It very much depends on the teacher assessment, i.e. how your child works day to day rather than a one off snapshot.

[pointythings]

I think they're meant to get a 4b at SATs in yr6, am I wrong? On that basis your DS would be on target to get high 4/low 5 next year, but chidren don't learn in a predictable way. He could stall, he could fly, and a lot depends on teachers too!

[letthembe]

I have just completed the Y5 English Optional SATs with my class, my most able readers (50% of the class) were 5c, about 15% were 3b/a, the rest somewhere in the Level 4. Similar percentages for writing, but not as many Level 5s. Pretty chuffed but this is only a guide and Teacher Assessment plays a large role in the overall results. I would say your DC could make Level 5s across the board next, it just depends on progress. We work on a basis of 2 sub-levels a year for progress, for example 4c to 4a. Progress over KS2 has to be greater than 2 levels (for example 2b to 4b) for a school to be graded outstanding by OfSTED - it's all a political game. Doing maths SAT after hal-term, but I know some of the most able in the top group will achieve a 5b!!

[letthembe]

Whoops half-term.

[treas]

Bum, poo, wee - I meant 4b for end of Yr 6

'Yup your dc has done really well - by the end of year 6 the level to reach is 4b.

[Feenie]

I read it as that, treas! Must be end of term bonkers as you!

[clam]

letthembe do you not think that those yr 5 reading papers level high? I've just had a whole batch of kids coming out with 5Bs but ime that doesn't translate to a 5B on a Yr 6 paper - even though "they" say it should. Hence the need for teacher assessments. I don't think any of the group are what I would say are that high at this stage.

[Cortina]

I don't understand this, why is it obviously a complete fluke if a child scores higher than expected on a reading or reading comprehension test?

[Feenie]

Because the Y5 reading paper mark thresholds are iffy.

[needtogetalife]

it may be those expected levels but when they reach the yr6 SATS they are all pushed and presured to get level 5.

[clam]

And because it doesn't match at all with my daily observations in class.

[Cortina]

Clam & Need, still concerned.

If a child writes clear, correct answers to comprehension questions and shows they can read and understand well to score highly on a test, to my mind this is evidence they are competent enough to deserve that score.

What about a sudden spurt in attainment? Or do judgements about previous and assumed ability cloud judgement? Your opinion is they are not able enough to get such a high score, the facts are they did.

Feenie, that is more comforting.

[Feenie]

One sudden spurt in attainment does not a lsecure sublevel make! A good teacher will look at all the other evidence to make a sound judgement. It may be, as many Y5 teachers think, that the level thresholds are inflated or that the paper is skewed towards one type of question (not enough level 5 questions to give a level 5 score imo). But one reading paper cannot possibly take in all questions from all levels, which is why levelling purely from a single snapshot alone is such a dangerous business, and not good practice.

Cortina, a sudden spurt in attainment would be matched by other, similar spurts in other evidence trails. No good teacher keeps a child in an unnecessary sublevel box, we are all delighted if they exceed our high expectations, but awarding a level on one tiny piece if evidence is Not Good.

[clam]

Not all the answers are written explanations. Some are multiple choice or join up matching statements or sequence events using numbers. Those answers could be copied from a neighbour. Note I say could, and that ought to be managed by the teacher, but I suspect isn't always.
And the lengthier answers, gaining higher marks, are very subjective to judge, yet they are the ones which are more likely to show a higher-ability reader. Yet children can ratchet up reasonably high scores just from answering the "easier" questions, or those longer questions but with "shallower" answers.
Plus, as Feenie says, the level thresholds are dodgy. Some sub-levels, albeit the lower levels, are only 2 or three marks - room for error there.
So, the tests aren't the be-all-and-end-all. They can be useful in part, but do not give the whole picture. Hence, they should be used in conjunction with teacher assessment. Which you'd hope for if your child happened to botch a test on the day for some reason, and came out with a low score.

[letthembe]

I'm not keen on the Y5 SAT so I've done a couple of Y6 past papers through the year, the results to correlate - there or there abouts. My class are readers and read interesting challenging books, so my Teacher Assessment will put about 50% of them at level 5. (It is a high achieving school in a leafy green suburb, parents are pushy supportive, so they make great progress). IMO at this age, levels are not the be all and end all, it should be about enjoying school, developing socially and emotionally and getting ready to access a secondary school curriculum. Grades at GCSE are when things matter, when it leads onto the first tentative steps towards careers, further education etc.

[Cortina]

KS1 results as well as KS2 results were requested in a recent case to establish academic ability and potential. When children marginally fail the 11 plus KS1 results can be taken into account and are asked for. Of course they are not the only factors considered but can help the case for or against a place being given.

It's my personal feeling KS2 levels are important, I have heard they have been used to set/stream at secondary schools as the old tests given to decide these things in Y6 now too expensive. A child that under achieves at the end of primary is likely to go into secondary with a document/result that says they are 'less capable' rather than an endorsement that suggests they are 'bright'.

[clam]

All the more reason then, cortina, for not using a snapshot of performance on one day from a test that is not universally rated by teachers at the chalkface.

[letthembe]

I agree clam, you need to be making judgements on more than an hour's test.
I have to be honest, I haven't experienced the 11plus, but have down a lot of secondary school transfers and I have found that the receiving secondary schools really do listen the Y6 teachers when discussing academic potential and set according. CAT testing on entry into secondary is very common in my neck of the woods.

[verybusymumofthree]

Thanks for taking the time to explain!