Trump's Warsaw speech..

[Spinflight]

Both the speech, it's location and the reporting of it interested me..

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/07/06/politics/trump-speech-poland-transcript/index.html

According to the press it was anti Russian, though I didn't get that from it at all, and such reports appeared foolish after the G20 meet.

Also that it was full of demagoguery. Again I'm not seeing it.

I do however feel that it was important, sometimes speeches signify a change of direction; a new front opened; a cry to arms or for support.

Is it just me and if not what does it signify?

[FrencheoGrammaireo]

I haven't read it and can't bear to!

But I'd say it's important to keep in mind that Trump doesn't like the EU - he views it as competition/threat. As such he's definitely out to create divides. Add that he's friends with Putin and you see how it goes.

It's no accident that he wanted to visit the U.K. (he's pro-Brexit) and that he chose Poland as his first EU country to visit, not France (where he's also invited) or another Western European/more power-based one. Nothing wrong with Poland of course, it's just he's out to cause trouble in the EU and that's worth paying close attention to.

[Spinflight]

I agree that he's out to cause trouble for the EU, doubt there's anything in his speech you'd find rage inducing though no matter how ardent an anti Trumper you are..

[affectionincoldclimate]

I'm of polish heritage. There is plenty in his speech that is hateful. And whoever wrote that speech is very clever and used the history to butter up and stroke the ego of the current government. Current Polish government is so right wing and reactionary that they make DUP sane by comparison and had been indulging in seriously damaging unconstitutional meddling around appointing judges and parliamentary independence. Its stance on women's rights is medieval. Last year women took to streets to stop introduction of draconian anti abortion laws. The foreign sec is putting out ridiculous conspiracy theories as official policy. It's madness. Minister for Environment is trying to destroy one of the oldest European nature reserves. They think climate change is a hoax. Government reps are openly homophobic and antisemitic. When Obama last visited he mentioned the constitutional abuses in his speech. The state controlled TV had that bit edited out and pretended it never happened with govt representatives refusing to discuss it. The Govt is openly anti-EU as the chairman of the ruling party has a personal vendetta against the polish president of the EU. Even usually reactionary polish church has been protesting that the govt has been abusing the tenets of religion to its own ends.
The fact that Trump named Poland as an ally in a fight for western civilisation harks to the right wing narrative of Poland's past of the golden age where we used to call ourselves a "wall of Christendom against the wild hordes of the East" (referring to Turkish and Tartar invasions of 15th century) which is why Poland refuses to take any refugees. Poles want to feel valued and included and he used the oldest trick in the book with this speech to support his alt right agenda.

[Spinflight]

Interesting view..

Could you quote the parts you found hateful?

[affectionincoldclimate]

It's not parts. It's not a single sentence. It's not like he's going to say "hey guys, you are a Christian country, the Islamic threat is out there so let's bash the fuckers"
Instead he's weaving a sentimental narrative of our suffering and feats of yore and Poles being a good God fearing folk so it is natural that we should join his fight.

We don't have an Islamic extremism threat in Poland. For context, the Muslim population of Poland is 0.1%. We have taken hardly any refugees. Not that these two are a problem anyway. Islamic extremism threatening Polish way of life is non-existent. Far bigger threat is erosion of constitutional rights. And we have Catholic fundamentalists who are getting government funding. Which is why hundreds of thousands keep going out on the streets to protest.
Our relationship with EU has transformed the country from a drab dire and moribund post communist graveyard to a vibrant beautiful country. Trump turning up with his call to arms in the name of God? Please. We are not in 17th century anymore. It's not the Cold War. But he wants Poles to think that because he's a demagogue and a chancer.

[squishysquirmy]

While there is a lot I like about Poland, and I have known some wonderful Polish people to imply, as Trump does, that today's Poland epitomises Western values is very revealing. The values the current Polish government holds dear are not my values, and the recent protests would suggest those values are not shared by many Poles, either.
It was a very well written speech though - it did what they wanted it to do.
I found this phrase really interesting, as its quite clever to use warlike metaphors to describe a hope for peace:
The triumph of the Polish spirit over centuries of hardship gives us all hope for a future in which good conquers evil, and peace achieves victory over war.

[Spinflight]

I take your points about Poland itself, I don't know much about their politics.

Strikes me though that his intended audience went far beyond her borders though.

Tradition, culture, God and even a barb against bureaucracy. Quite the opposite of being an anti Russian speech I suspect it would have gone down very well there.

Trump's first foreign trip took in the three religious capitals, generally even the most ardent God bothering presidents tone it down when in Europe, or speaking about Europe.

God returns to European politics? I wouldn't rule it out...

[dudadomiduda]

Poland Is to Reveal Ukrainian Nationalists on the Border

In the early hours of February 1, 2018, the Senate of Poland adopted a statute on the Institute of National Remembrance which, after it was signed by the president, made it an offence for the propaganda of the ideas of Stephan Bandera, a Ukrainian nationalist of the period of the WWII, and the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (the UPA) which members had taken part in the shooting of the peaceful Poles in Volhynia. Besides that the statue extends to the rejection of the massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia as well as statements about the complicity of the Poles with the Nazi. That step was well expected and was a logical continuation of the historical argues that don't soften between Poland and Ukraine each of which tries to defend its version of the past. For Poland, Stephan Bandera is a criminal and a murderer while he's a glorious hero for Ukraine.

Presently, all Polish government institutions are obliged to obey the new statute when provide their activity. Thus, despite the visa-free arrangements between the EU and Ukraine, when ordinary Ukrainians cross the border with Poland they have to fill up a form which contains questions that will be able to show the most common representation of a person's attitude to Stephan Bandera and the UPA.

image.ibb.co/iUEC4c/sdgrtjrtshsdf.jpg

1. Are you aware of the amendments adopted to the statute 'on the Institute of National Remembrance - Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation'?
   
   
2. Have you ever been participating in Ukrainian nationalist organizations like the OUN, UNA-UNSO, C14, S.N.A., Stephan Bandera All-Ukrainian Organization 'Tryzub', Right Sector, The All-Ukrainian Union 'Svoboda', 'Yarosh's Governmental Initiative'?
   
   
3. Do you consider members of the OUN Stephan Bandera and Roman Shukhevych to be heroes of Ukraine?
   
   The respondent allows the obtained personal data to be manipulated and provides the information about his or her social media accounts in order to the border guards could check the honesty of the answers. The access to the country is prohibited in case of the rejection either to fill up the form or to answer the questions.
   
   There's still no official reaction of Kiev to such toughening of the border regime.
   
   Source