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Please support my campaign

(27 Posts)
user1478635588 Tue 08-Nov-16 20:12:04

Please support my campaign to stop forced & malicious parental alienation. This impacts the lives of many children and alienated parents across the UK and I have started a government petition to address this. The petition will take no more than 1 minute to sign and is absolutely free. Please sign & share with everyone you know. Thank you petition.parliament.uk/petitions/170189

AyeAmarok Tue 08-Nov-16 20:18:10

How do you plan on police quickly establishing the cases where contact is withheld due to concerns about safety and those where it is "malicious"?

CrazyDuchess Tue 08-Nov-16 20:21:55

revision of the children and families act is required to give police greater powers of discretion to enforce equal contact where malicious behaviour is proven

How would that work? Have the police arrive and forcibly remove a child? Do the police have enough time to be dealing with domestic disputes? Surely this is why they need to go to court??

Starlight2345 Tue 08-Nov-16 21:27:05

No thanks..

user1478635588 Wed 09-Nov-16 11:50:46

Thank you for your query.
The first point I would like to make is that E-Petitions don't give you much space to describe things.
Secondly, even if this does get discussed by parliament there will be a long period of discussion and planning before it becomes the law (if it gets that far) of which of course I would like to be involved. Any interventions from the police, if that's whats agreed, will be based on evidence and the expressed wishes of the children where appropriate. In my case there was no issue about safety, purely the other parent wanting their own way at the detriment of the children. This nees to change. What I am proposing is simply that....proposals. But some kind of change needs to be implemented. If there is evidence of abuse then it should proceed to court.
Kind regards.

user1478635588 Wed 09-Nov-16 12:00:06

To Crazy Duchess.

Many thanks for your message.
To clarify further from my message above, I have never ever nor never ever advocate forced removal of a child. My argument is for parents who commit these acts to face legal consequences.
You ask if the police have time to dealing with this type of issue. My response to you would be this.
My wife called the police on me for nothing more than an argument when I found out she was cheating on me. It was a 2 way row. When she called the police she claimed I had assaulted her. When the Police called me up to invite me to voluntary interview they told me on the phone that there was no evidence to back up her claims, and that was based on her own statement. However as per police procedure I still had to go for interview and again was told nothing would likely come of this. a week later I received an email simply stating "Insufficient evidence, no further action". My wife continued to keep me from the children despite on the day of the argument, when the argument had finished she wanted to go out without the children and left them in my care for the rest of the day. Evidence of a concerned mother?
It states in a document I was given by the mediators "Judicial Processes of England & Wales - What the Courts expect from parents: It is the law for children to see both parents". Therefore if it is the law then the police should be able to enforce it in some way.
Evidence is everything. Nothing is solved straight away. Plans and proposals need time to be discussed and ironed out.
Kind regards

AyeAmarok Wed 09-Nov-16 12:02:41

Therefore if it is the law then the police should be able to enforce it in some way.

The police are there to uphold the criminal laws, not civil matters.

user1478635588 Wed 09-Nov-16 12:05:30

The main thing that I would like to highlight is that when the children did eventually see me after many weeks (I have never been away from them for more than a few days), they were extremely excited to see me. When I dropped them home the next day they were very sad to see me go. My wife also admitted that they had been asking after me many times during my forced time away from them. Therefore it was, in my opinion, not in the best interest of the children to not see their father. That and no evidence supporting that I had done anything wrong.

AyeAmarok Wed 09-Nov-16 12:11:02

I think it's safe to say that you haven't given any thought whatsoever into how this would work, without putting innocent children at risk of harm.

Go and do that, and then come back to me, and I'll consider signing.

Bonobosown Wed 09-Nov-16 12:12:42

You might want to look into the women's aid child first campaign.

I won't be signing.

user1478635588 Wed 09-Nov-16 12:15:48

To Ayeamorak

To keep parents & children apart for no good reason is abusive and it needs to be deemed as such. The long term psychological effects on children (feelings of abandonment, lack of self worth, feeling as though nobody could ever love them, low self esteem, greater risk of depression & anxiety) can have lifelong implications for children. Maybe I should campaign for a revision of safeguarding laws & police also? Whether its mothers to fathers or fathers to mothers it is unacceptable to use children as emotional pawns. I agree, if there is a clear reason why parental absence is necessary then it should go to civil or criminal court but if not, some measures need to be put in place to protect children from this abusive, point scoring behaviour.

Many thanks

user1478635588 Wed 09-Nov-16 12:20:15

To Ayemorak

Just one more important point about the crossover between police involvement in civil & Criminal Matters. My issues with my wife was only ever looked upon as a domestic incident following my wifes statement (she was the one who reported the issue). again, as mentioned before, the Police told me that there was no evidence to support her claim. Yet they still got me in for questioning, still had to spend the time reviewing the evidence, therefore, my answer would be that yes. The Police could get involved.

AyeAmarok Wed 09-Nov-16 12:32:02

Yes, you'll find that with a lot of crimes, the only evidence when something is first reported is the victim saying something happened, whether that's theft, domestic violence, rape, harassment etc.

Do you think when someone reports a crime the police shouldn't look into it and interview the alleged perpetrator?

WannaBe Wed 09-Nov-16 12:36:52

You have the term parental alienation entirely wrong, although I haven't read your petition, however parental alienation afaik is when a parent deliberately turns their child against another parent, not a parent withholding access for whatever reason.

While I don't agree with either, the reality is that there is no way to enforce any law on the matter.

user1478635588 Wed 09-Nov-16 12:42:36

To Ayemorak

How would children be put at harm? Im simply asking that if there is no evidence to support a reason for parental alienation and is detrimental to the child, then the parent forcing the alienation should be subject to action such as informal warnings, then escalate to formal caution, then a fine. It could be that the children who are left with the parent who is forcing alienation may also be at risk of abuse. All of these things need to be taken into consideration. Again, im not trying to solve all the issues, whats and why fors in one petition. that is simply not possible. But it opens things up for debate as evident here. If it does go as far as I would like it to then lawyers would get involved to view it and plan how its enforceable. I feel fro this forum that people think it should all be dealt with and all should be answered straight away. That's simply not possible. Im asking for a revision of the law, this will never be straightforward but I feel it needs to be brought to attention, which is all im doing.
I do appreciate everyone on here debating this though.

Again, this is not about pitting mothers against fathers or visa versa, its about doing whats right by the children

Thank you

AyeAmarok Wed 09-Nov-16 12:54:11

Because what you seem to be suggesting is that, say, a man would turn up to his ex's house wanting the children, and if the mother didn't hand them over, the police would be called and force the mother to hand them over if there was no "evidence" immediately available.

Family courts already investigate allegations of harm and enforce contact orders if they feel it is purely malicious and without basis, but it takes time.

Can't you understand that by skipping the bit where the allegations are looked into, you would be advocating that mothers hand their children over to a man they could be at risk of physical or sexual abuse from, or even "just" emotional abuse. Sometimes there are very, very good reasons why the resident parent (either male or female) doesn't give children over for contact.

user1478635588 Wed 09-Nov-16 13:27:53

AyeAmorak

I completely agree with you last point. and as ive mentioned before these incidents should go to court. However, what ive also mentioned before and what you are not addressing is what if the parent the children reside with (the ones who usually stop contact) are abusing the children?

Usually Police investigations are quick. And im no way advocating that before any outcome into alleged abuse the children are just handed over. if the Police suspect any kind of wrongdoing that warrants further investigation then of course the children must be protected.
In my case, my wife alleged assault against me with no evidence (purely as no assault had occurred) and allowed me to take the children out with me straight after the argument. It is these types of situations im campaigning against.
And yes, I do feel that given my situation, for people who find themselves in the same kind of situation they have the right to call the police. My wife called the police on me when I asked her (just once that week) if I could see the children even for 30 mins after school. The Police had time enough to email me and ask I respect her wishes of being left alone or she could decide to try and get an injunction out against me which could make it harder to have access to the children. When I argued that my request to see my children was reasonable AND lawful, they didn't disagree.
By your argument, the Police should of told her at that time that this was not a police issue but they still took time to follow this up.

You point out that my campaign has inconsistencies, yet there are already glaring inconsistencies with the current system.

My final point. The childrens views, where appropriate should also be taken into account. Away from the parents so they do not feel pressured. Again, its all just proposals.

Thanks

PortiaCastis Wed 09-Nov-16 13:37:07

I have just had to pay £500 for an injuction to keep my exh away from me and my dd
No way will I sign a petition!

AnneElliott Wed 09-Nov-16 13:44:06

No I won't sign. I guess some parents may try to keep their children away from the other patent maliciously, but those situations that I have personal knowledge of there are very good reasons for contact being withheld.

The family courts still enforce contact in cases of domestic violence, so I really don't see the need for the change in the law that you're seeking.

AyeAmarok Wed 09-Nov-16 13:47:26

So it wasn't that she was withholding the children, it was that she reported you for assaulting her, and the police told you not to contact her, so you couldn't arrange contact with the children?

After you allegedly assaulted her, she still let the children go with you?

So where is the "alienation"?

Your post is extremely confusing/confused.

ElsaAintAsColdAsMe Wed 09-Nov-16 13:47:57

I would sign a petition to get parents to pay equal costs for their children or to make it safer to use the CMS (I can't use them as they can't guarantee my address will be kept safe) or to make it easier to get payments quickly through the CMS. I'd even sign one to get more funding for contact centres.

Will I sign a petition that allows an abusive partner to use the law to further bully their ex using their children simply because 'there isn't enough evidence to convict them' oh hell no I wouldn't.

Toffeelatteplease Wed 09-Nov-16 13:53:06

Under your scheme I would probably be done for. It was certainly believed in court I was making up allegations of abuse to alienate the kids.

The kids were delighted to see him when they saw him (in a safe room where nobody explained that in the long run it wouldn't be supervised and I wasn't allowed to in case it alienated the kids further). In fact they were delighted to see him full stop, because abuse doesn't stop you loving someone.

Took him hospitalising one of them for anyone to consider contact might not be such a good idea and maybe "my poor attitude" to my ex wasn't the biggest threat afterall.

I think the biggest threat to children is the supposed seriousness with which parental alienation is currently dealt with.

So no I won't be signing your petition

Toffeelatteplease Wed 09-Nov-16 14:00:12

I'm sorry I just saw your ridiculous idea that only a proper conviction would be evidence of abuse. We had injuries and 2 children saying the same thing and the police still didn't prosecute. Not sure I would have wanted them going through the stress of them testifying against their dad anyway

abbsismyhero Wed 09-Nov-16 14:05:44

No chance will I sign a petition giving abusers' more rights to abuse the first sign of noncompliance and they will be screaming parental alienation

People need to be able to protect their children without fear of punishment

abbsismyhero Wed 09-Nov-16 14:07:14

If you started a petition to force non paying parents to pay child support that I would sign

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