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Pedants' corner

James' or James's?

27 replies

MamOfTwo · 09/12/2014 18:26

My Yr 2 child has been learning about possessive apostrophes in class today. Her name ends with an 's'. Teacher has told her it should be James' but I think it should be James's. (Her name is not James, obviously.) I know both are correct, but is one 'more' correct? And if so, why?

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PedantMarina · 09/12/2014 18:29

Shouldn't that be "possessive apostrophe's"?

Actually, it hurt to even type that...

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RobotRuthy · 09/12/2014 18:29

I think James' is less clumsy.

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scarletforya · 09/12/2014 18:30

Jamesiz

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MamOfTwo · 09/12/2014 18:34

PedantMaria - no, it shouldn't. I was referring to more than one apostrophe - so the plural of that is apostrophes.

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ilovepowerhoop · 09/12/2014 18:34

I think they are both correct. James' looks neater

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Bicnod · 09/12/2014 18:36

I have a James and we always go with James's.

I read somewhere once that for someone/something famous/important you should use, for example, Jesus' or Guy's and St Thomas' - but for bog standard normal folk use 's.

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ilovepowerhoop · 09/12/2014 18:37

found this online:

With personal names that end in -s: add an apostrophe plus s when you would naturally pronounce an extra s if you said the word out loud:

He joined Charles’s army in 1642.

Dickens's novels provide a wonderful insight into Victorian England.

Thomas's brother was injured in the accident.

With personal names that end in -s but are not spoken with an extra s: just add an apostrophe after the -s:

The court dismissed Bridges' appeal.

Connors' finest performance was in 1991.

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OttilieKnackered · 09/12/2014 18:39

Both are correct. I usually advise my students (particularly the weaker ones) to use James's as it better reflects the way that they would say it. It also makes it slightly less confusing when explaining the difference in indicating the possession of a group of people (ladies' etc).

James' could potentially be mistaken for a group of people called 'Jame' owning something together.

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petitdonkey · 09/12/2014 18:39

I always thought it was James'…
Can I hijack a little and ask the pedants to settle an argument?? Punctuate the following sentence:

We are going to Sarahs parents house for Christmas.

Obviously they are her parents but their house - do they both get apostrophes?

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MamOfTwo · 09/12/2014 18:42

We are going to Sarah's parents' house for Christmas.

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Bicnod · 09/12/2014 18:42

I would use:

We are going to Sarah's parents' house for Christmas.

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AliMonkey · 09/12/2014 18:43

Sarah's parents' house

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SquidgyMaltLoaf · 09/12/2014 18:45

I remember this coming up on the Test The Nation quiz about ten years ago - the correct answer there was James's - as in St James's Palace.

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iwantginsoakedXmas · 09/12/2014 18:47

I thought you could do either James' or James's.

The first looks less clumsy on the page.

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Fairyfellowsmasterstroke · 09/12/2014 18:50

James'

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PedantMarina · 09/12/2014 18:51

Mam, yes, I know. I was utilising some serious self-mockery there.. I do apologise, should have inserted a smiley face or similar.

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petitdonkey · 09/12/2014 18:53

Thank you!

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MamOfTwo · 09/12/2014 18:55

PedantMarina - apologies, sense of humour failure on my part! Apologies also for missing the 'n' from 'Marina' in my earlier post...

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TheWomanTheyCallJayne · 09/12/2014 19:05

I have a James and use both dependent on what looks right at the time.

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JeanSeberg · 09/12/2014 19:05

I thought the rule was up to 2 syllables is s's after that it's s'.

So James's cat, Agnes's dog but Aurelius' empire.

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DadDadDad · 10/12/2014 11:33

I have a name that ends with an s, and I think I prefer the s's formulation, because it distinguishes it from s' cases where the word is a plural. I am not a plural! I also agree with the point that it emphasises pronuncation, ie we say James-IZ not James, but dogs' is not pronounced dogs-IZ.

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DadDadDad · 10/12/2014 11:35

And before another pedant gets there, I do know how to spell pronunciation.

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Waitingonasunnyday · 10/12/2014 11:39

I've always preferred James', even though I would say Jamesiz.

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Waitingonasunnyday · 10/12/2014 11:44

Thinking about it, my own name ends in s. It is double s so I think that's why I prefer '.

Tess' dress looks nice. Tess's dress looks nice.

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FriendlyLadybird · 10/12/2014 22:42

But you don't say Tess dress looks nice: you say Tessiz dress looks nice. And you say Jamesiz dress doesn't look quite as good. It's not about how it looks on the page or what you prefer but about how the possessive is formed in English.

The only times you don't use 's is when the name itself ends in the iz sound. Of the top of my head I can only think of Moses. Oh and Jesus' in very old hymns.