Absolutely at my wits' end with 5.6 yr old DD - have been horrible to her today. Please help!

[SpawnChorus]

DD is (and always has been) extremely outgoing, confident, loud, defiant, argumentative, "energetic" (read hyper) and rough with other kids (including the DSes). I am really at a loss with how to deal with her.

Today for example she hit DS1 in the mouth with a broom handle (giving him a bloody lip), she slammed a door on his head, she jumped on him and she stabbed a stick into the back of his hand. They actually play really nicely together most of the time, but she just can't seem to help herself from suddenly taking their "game" way too far.

When we're out (e.g. yesterday I had to spend a couple of hours at hospital with DS1 ....NOT injury-related! ) she behaves like a lunatic. She is constantly hurling herself around and interrupting adults and shrieking and running away.

She does not give a shit about my stern words, or about reward charts or punishments (e.g. confiscating toys). She just stares back at me with that sulky teenageresque face which winds me up so badly.

I ended up shouting at her REALLY loudly in her face today, and later when I caught her stabbing DS in the hand I flipped and cuffed her (lightly) on the back of the head. It didn't actually hurt her, but I obviously feel full of remorse that I essentially lashed out in anger / shock.

Anyway, I'm beginning to wonder if I should be seeking some sort of external help. All the other five year olds I know are sooo chilled and kind to their siblings. I was myself a super-chilled and "obedient" kid, so maybe I'm just no good at working out what makes her tick.

I should add that she has LOADS of really positive personality traits, and that I find her awesome in all sorts of ways, but the negative stuff is overshadowing them, and I'm beginning to dread having to spend time with her .
Does anyone have any advice?

[WinkyWinkola]

What exactly do you mean by "stabbing ds in the hand"?

So, all the things you describe she does on purpose? To purposely injure your ds? I mean, they're not giddy ott accidents that happen when she gets over excited?

If they're not accidents, then how about she is sent to lie on her bed for 7 minutes every single time it happens. And loses a treat like a bedtime story?

It'll be wearying for all of you because it might feel like she's always going to her room but she cannot be allowed to behave that way. Let her stare back at you but your punishments do bother her.

You've got to keep up the steady beat of disapproval and letting her know that you will not allow your other dcs to be hurt by her.

It sounds to me like you're under an awful lot of pressure and I'm not surprised you reacted the way you did. It's so hard but it's not the norm so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it.

Do you think you should investigate further why her behaviour is quite so extreme? Take her to the G.P. and ask for a paediatrician's assessment?

[SpawnChorus]

Winky - the "stabbing" was with a stick from this game. It didn't draw blood, but obviously hurt.

On balance I'd say that she does try to hurt DS1 in purpose. Or at least, she knows what she's doing is likely to end in tears, and she just doesn't care. Like I said, it's odd because she loves him and plays happily with him most of the time.

I've been kind of reluctant to take her to the doc, as I don't want to pathologise what I was hoping might be normal behaviour (just at the extreme end of the scale iykwim). And I don't want her labelled as hyperactive or whatever. And I don't want her to hear me talking negatively about her to the doctor.

I'm feeling so sad for her and me.

[SpawnChorus]

bump

[WinkyWinkola]

I know how you feel. My ds (two months younger) also has extremely defiant behaviours. I took him to be assessed physically first and all was well. Then his behaviour improved and I took him off the play therapy waiting list. But it's back again....however, that's me.

I know how exhausting, upsetting and wearing it all is. I've sobbed into my car's steering wheel many time and thanked god for school. Plus effect on whole family, marriage etc. It's remarkable how one very strong character in an albeit very small person can take its toll on everyone.

I won't let ds play with dd (aged 3) and ds2 (8 mos) when he's playing up. I tell him I'm worried he'll hurt them and so they have to play in another room. That seems to work for a bit - I mean, ds promises he won't hurt them. When he does, I remove the younger children saying he can't play with them anymore.

Is there anything really important to your dd that will have an effect on her if it gets taken away?

[jobhuntersrus]

I think time out would be a good strategy. If she cannot behave in an appropraite way then she needs to be removed from the room. She needs time to calm down and so do you. Is there a safe place you can put her e.g send her to her room or even better a boring room like a hall way?
Also go OTT on the praise when she is being well behaved. She may pretend she doesn't care but i bet deep down she does, she just doesn't want you to know that!

[SpawnChorus]

Winky - gosh we have very similarly aged DCs . I wonder if age gaps / position in the family exacerbate these behavioural traits?

jobhuntersus - we consistently did the supernanny-style time out for a few years. It didn't seem to change her behaviour, but I suppose it did diffuse the immediate problem. I wish I could be convinced that my sanctions, or even better my / DSes' feelings affect her in some way. At one point yesterday when I was telling her off she actually said "blah blah blah" with an eye roll. I thought I'd have at least a few more years before teenage withering came in to play.

maryz - thanks for that tip re: the book. Will go and look. Although the "difficult" child title makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. I think it stems from having seen other families with a livewire kid who has been labelled as naughty or difficult or whatever, and it's almost a case of give a dog a bad name iykwim? I think I might be being a bit precious though!

I especially like your tip about having one rule. I have a feeling that would help in our case. Did you literally let him get away with everything else? e.g. getting down from the table during meals, not tidying up etc?

[SpawnChorus]

Oh wow...I've just been browsing the "I've got a problem child" section of Amazon, and came across this excerpt from Raising Your Spirited Child:

The word that distinguishes spirited children from other children is more. They are normal children who are more intense, persistent, sensitive, perceptive and uncomfortable with change than other children.

ALL children possess these characteristics, but spirited children possess them with a depth and range not available to other children. Spirited kids are the super ball in a room full of rubber balls. Other kids bounce three feet off the ground. Every bounce for a spirited child hits the ceiling.

It is difficult to describe what it is like to be the parent of a spirited child. The answer keeps changing; it depends on the day, even the moment. How does one describe the experience of sliding from joy to exasperation in seconds, ten times a day. How does one explain the ?sense? at eight in the morning that this will be a good day or a dreadful one.

The good ones couldn?t be better. Profound statements roll from his mouth, much too mature and intellectual for a child of his age. He remembers experiences you have long since forgotten and drags you to the window to watch the raindrops, falling like diamonds from the sky. On the good days being the parent of a spirited child is astounding, dumbfounding, wonderful, funny, interesting, and interspersed with moment of brilliance.

The dreadful days are another story. On those days you?re not sure whether you can face another twenty four hours with him, It?s hard to feel good as a parent when you can?t even get his socks on, when every word you?ve said to him has been a reprimand, when the innocents act of serving up tuna casseroles instead of the expected tacos incites a riot, when you realise you?ve left more public places in a huff with your child in five years than most people do in a lifetime.

On the bad days being the parent of a spirited child is confusing, frustrating, taxing, challenging, and guilt inducing.

The Characteristics

Each spirited child is unique, yet there exists distinct characteristics in which more is very apparent. Not all spirited children will possess all of the following five characteristics, but each will exhibit enough of them to make her stand out in a crowd.

1. Intensity.

The loud, dramatic spirited children are the easiest to spot. They don?t cry, they shriek. They?re noisy when they play, when they laugh, and even when they take a shower.
But quiet, intently observant children may also be spirited. They assess each situation before entering it as though developing a strategy for every move; their intensity is focused inward rather than outward.

No matter where their intensity is focussed, the reactions of a spirited child are always powerful. There is rarely a middle of the road. They never whimper, they wail. They can skip into a room, smiling and laughing only to depart thirty seconds later inflamed. Their tantrums are raw and enduring.

1. Persistence.

If an idea or activity is important to them, spirited children can ?lock? right in. They are committed to their task, goal oriented, and unwilling to give up. Getting them to change their minds is a major undertaking. They love to debate and are not afraid to assert themselves.

1. Sensitivity

Keenly aware, spirited kids quickly respond to the slightest noises, smells, lights, textures, or changes in mood. They are easily overwhelmed in crowds by the barrage of sensations. Getting through a shopping centre, fair or family gathering without losing them to a fit of tears is a major achievement. Getting dressed can be torture. A wayward string, or a scratchy texture can render clothes unwearable.
Every sensation and emotion is absorbed by them, including your feelings. They?ll tell you you?re having a rotten day before you realise it yourself and even scream and sulk for you.

1. Perceptiveness.

Send them to their room to get dressed and they?ll never make it. Something along the way- perhaps a commercial on television ? will catch their attention as they walk by and they?ll forget about getting dressed. It can take ten minutes to get from the house to the car. They notice everything ? the latest oil spill, the white feather in a bird?s next, and the dew in the spider web. They?re often accused of not listening.

1. Adaptability

Spirited children are uncomfortable with change. They hate surprises and do not shift easily from one activity or idea to another. If they?re expecting hot dogs on the grill for supper, heaven forbid if you come home and suggest going out to a restaurant. Even if it is their favourite restaurant, they?ll say, ?No, I want hot dogs.?
Adapting to change, any change is tough: ending a game in order to come to lunch, changing clothes for different seasons, getting in and out of the card. All of these activities signal a struggle for slow-to-adapt spirited children.

??????
WHILE EACH spirited child is unique most are more intense, persistent, sensitive, perceptive and uncomfortable with change. Many, but not all possess four additional ?bonus? characteristics: aspects of their personality that can make being their parent even more challenging.
??????

1. Regularity

Figuring out when they will sleep or eat is a daily puzzlement for parents of spirited kids who are irregular. It seems impossible to get them on to any kind of schedule. An eight-hour night of undisturbed sleep is like a mere memory lingering in your mind from the days before their birth.

1. Energy

Not all spirited kids are climbers and leapers. But they do tend to be busy ? taking things apart, exploring, and creating projects ? from the time they wake up until they finally fall asleep. Although sometimes viewed as ?wild?, their energy is usually focussed and has a purpose.

1. First reaction

A quick withdrawal from anything new is typical of many spirited kids. An unfamiliar Idea, thing, place or person may be met with a vehement no. They need time to warm up before they?re ready to participate.

1. Mood

The world is a serious place for some spirited kids. They?re analytical, picking apart experiences, finding the flaws, and making suggestions for change. Their smiles are few and far between and they may be prone to whining.

If your child possesses any of the ?bonus? characteristics, you will need to be even more enterprising. You are not only living with a child who is more, but you?re also faced with the exhaustion of life with a kid who is energetic, needs little sleep, expresses a strong resistance to new situations and things.

ALL children possess these characteristics to a certain degree, but the distinguishing factor for spirited children is more. They are not, however experiencing Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Children experiencing ADHD, even if they want to, are unable to focus their energy and attention. Spirited kids fall within the range of normal behaviour.

This is SO precisely how I feel about DD it's uncanny.