And they never did that again...

[OrmIrian]

I read loads of threads on here about parents who do x or y to teach their DCs a lesson. Take away privileges, remove certain toys, don't let them go on special days out. And sometimes theaten to do/not to do things. And miraculously they work! The child never repeats the action that the sanction was intended to prevent. How?

I do that. And I carry them through sometimes and it makes bog all difference next time. 1,2,3 just forces us to count minute fractions between 2 and 3. Controlled crying didn't work because you had to do it forever. Which defeated the object.

Anyone else have sanction-proof children?

[Tamarto]

I have one. Nothing seems to work, if he wants to do it he will.

My other two aren't like it though.

[OrmIrian]

Oh yes, DS#2 is the worst by a long way.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I only have one not-too-difficult DD, so I'm luckily not too expert on this, but I think the thing wit sanctions is to always carry through (not just sometimes) and if you do the 1,2,3 never use fractions - pick a bigger number if need be. Don't threaten something if its not something you will carry out.

Controlled crying is IMO a bit of a different thing - maybe it works for some parents/children but its not a universal solution.

[pagwatch]

at Orm

You are probably just too lovely. I would imagine that is true.

My sanctions work with mine because I am a total cow. I threaten something that is hideous to them and i ALWAYS carry it through.Most importantly my DCs always absoloutely knew I would carry it through.I remember DS2 sitting opposite DD when I had said to her "this is the last time if you do X then I promise you Y will happen" and he said to her " she will, don't think she is bluffing - she will"
I have wal;ked them out of parties, lifted them up and carried them home from the shops, taken fav toys away etc etc.
BUT i only had to do it a few times because once I excluded all doubt that they may have had that i would follow through, I never had to threaten or act on it again.
i I learnt that the hard way as DS2's SN meant that he would take my not giving a consequence, or saying I would and then not, as a liscence to actively do the thing I was trying to stop.

But all children are very different and it is incredibly hard to deny a child you love something you know that they value. I had no choice. Ds2 was hurting himself and hurting other people so I had to get control of his behaviour. Once i knew I could do it I was just very very VERY careful how and when I used it. Now I am lovely and a breath of sunshine in their lives . I was only a ruthless cow for a short while. And of course now they can be totally reasoned with and can argue their position so no more ultimatums needed.

Yes. I think you are just too nice. And good for you

[mel1981]

I have 3 DS's. DS3 is only 11wks but Ds1, 5 is (generally) quite good. if needs to be punished will pay attention. Then most of the time will learn from being told off. Although if we are with other people he will show off big time & thats when he wont listen.
BUT DS2, 2 1/2 is a completely different story. Never listens, never does as hes told and it makes no difference how you punish him he will do what he wants when he wants. Weve been pulling our hair out over this for weeks now.
Weve tried naughty step, counting, threatening to take away toys/treats etc (this especially has no effect for some reason-it really doesnt bother him at all). We (now) carry out all punishments due to nothing working but makes no difference.

so If anyone has any miracle tips i'd appreciate them too. PLEASE!! lol

[deaddei]

Pag- you are so funny.
I too believe that being a total cow for a short time works wonders in the longterm.
I find the low controlled voice, whilst looking them directly in the eye and perhaps holding the top of their arm a tad firmly- seemed to do the trick.
Fear of God- bring it back!!

[2girls2love]

I agree with Pagwatch
I have 2 DD's, DS1 is 4 and has always been a handful, but it was only really until DS2 8 months came along that I knew I had to do something about it.

Until then, I don't think I was consistent with counting, sanctions etc, it would probably depend on what time of the month it was to how ruthless I was.

Now, I don't have the time or energy to keep fighting with her and have stuck with counting. i am ruthless now and believe it or not it seems to be working. Although it maybe just that now she's 4 she understands more about actions and consequences.

[OptimistS]

I SO relate to this. DD is your Ds's kindred spirit. We've had entire days where she's spent more time in her room on 2-minute time outs than anywhere else. And if I offer consequences I'd better make sure that I can carry them through because it's quite likely I will be forced to do so! It can be really hard because I really don't want to end up in this negative cycle with her where I always seem to be constantly on her case. It's horrible for her and makes me feel like crap, especially as DS is ultra compliant (I just have to give him 'the look' and his bottom lip trembles) so I often feel that it looks as though I favour DS over DD.

We still have the odd day like this (she's 2.7 so not really surprising), but I've gradually reduced them. Now they happen about once every 2 weeks.

I found the main thing with DD is sleep. Her behaviour nosedives when she's tired. Took me ages to work this out as I was always under the impression she needed less sleep than her twin brother - she woke earlier, often tried to get out of a daytime nap, and would frequently play in her room for two hours or more after I'd put her to bed in the evenings. It was only when my CM pointed out to me that tired children find it harder to sleep and that she may actually need more sleep, not less, that I started looking into it.

Took me a few months of putting her to bed earlier before I got anywhere. I can't do controlled crying because I end up crying too, so basically I had to let her either play until she wanted to go to sleep or go in and comfort her if she cried then tuck her in again and then leave, then repeat ad nauseum, until she fell asleep. She would still play up for 2 hours or more but because I was putting her to bed at 6 instead of 7.30, she was asleep at a reasonable time and I still had a bit of an evening to recover. After about a month of this, her behaviour started to improve dramatically and she started to play/protest for far less time. Nowadays she stays in bed and goes straight to sleep most nights. When she doesn't it's normally because I've left it too late and she's chronically over tired. I can always tell this because she suddenly starts behaving like she's taken amphetamines. (How do kids do this? I would love to become more energetic the more tired I become...)

In another post you mentioned DS2's sleep. Maybe that's what needs tackling first? You sound like a great mum and if there is a solution, I'm sure you'll find it. Alternatively, just keep reminding yourself that some children are just hard work (however loveable) and that "this too will pass".

[OrmIrian]

Too nice I don't feel like that sometimes. Maybe I just need to free my inner bitch . Let me just have a look for her....

[Mumwhensdinneready]

I did the total cow thing when mine were 2 and 4.
A very good friend tactfully pointed out that I was in charge and if I thought discipline was hard with a 4 year old it would only get harder the older the child was when I started to put my foot down.

I had been inconsistant and given in for a quiet life. I did all those things that Pag says and felt evil for it. Surprisingly though the boys didn't hate me and in fact there were miraculous improvements in behaviour.

Boys now 11 and 13 and rarely push the boundries. I am eternally grateful for my friend's advice.

[Metella]

Ds2 is very difficult but I find counting down works - if we hit zero it is seriously bad news!!!

[OrmIrian]

The really odd thing is that my older 2 children were brought up without any total cow stuff at all. I always explained the whys and wherefores and was fairly easy-going about most things. And they are by and large well-behaved and thoughtful. I get complimented on their behaviour all the time. DS2 is..... different. And I had been lulled into a false sense of security by DS#1 and DD and has no resources to cope with him. And he's more stubborn than me. He's more stubborn than everyone I've ever met for that matter. I don't think he is really my child.

[choufleur]

I'm a mean and horrid mum and do carry through. DS is generally well behaved and does believe that i will do what i say.

[pagwatch]

Rofl at Orms denial of liability for DS2. I am waiting to see how ds1 gets on with his GCSE's before I decide to permanaently claim him

Actually DS1 was such a great kid and was not very challenging ever. Ds2 was the nuclear opposite and DD just liked trying stuff on ( as in 'mum would never tell me off in front of other parents" " she just needs me to scream at the checkout and she will realise that she want me to have that doll"). Actually I found that failing to be wound up by her was the most effective thing - sitting down and writing my shopping list whilst waiting out her tantrum in the supermarket type stuff. She especially hated tips and advice "come on, that is really non commital rolling around - if you are going to thrash around put some proper effort into it!"

So i think they are all different and adjusting to a child that needs a different tactic ( whatever that may be ) is really hard.

So if cow isn't your style perhaps that wouldn't suit either of you anyway?
Hmm. I will think on.

[OrmIrian]

I am v good at ignoring tantrums. I have perfected the beatific calm and gentle smile whilst DS#2 re-enacts The Exorcist and people stare, cross themselves and clutch garlic bulbs. It's just getting him to do stuff that I find so challenging. And then to stop doing stuff at other times.

[OrmIrian]

Oh and DS#1 wanted a friend to stay over tonight. Of course I said no.

So of course I have just dug the spare sleeping bag and camping mat from under our bed, fed all 4 kids pizza and ice-cream and downed a large glass of red wine Now where did I put that backbone? Must be with my inner bitch....