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Parenting

terrible twos

16 replies

pop · 17/04/2002 11:56

My 2 1/2 yr old son has recently stopped having a daytime sleep AND we are potty training at the moment. He is obviously tired but seems to get completely hyper and increasingly defiant as the day goes on. I am 27 weeks preg. with twins and not feeling at my best so am conscious that I am not being as patient as I should be but am feeling at the end of my tether and am terrified that he is turning into the child from hell! Anyone else going through this stage? Any tips? Any good discipline strategies? Look forward to some advice

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pupuce · 17/04/2002 12:55

It's a phase... DS is just 2 months younger than yours and while he had been an angel... he is one hell of a challenge now. I am not pregnant but have an 8 months old.... and yes it is VERY tiring.
When I feel like I am going to loose it I usually take a REALLY deep breath or just get out of the room - think "is this really bad?, after all he is only 2 1/2"... usually these things work.
The other trick is to distract him which isn't always easy... hence I keep a few treats as surprise. In my case it's the apple juice organic lolly (they are small and he only gets 1 a day when in despair), rice cakes, play football with him inside the house (he will only play 3 minutes anyway but it is good enough to distract), cook muffins or pancakes with him (he knows the recipe and wil get all the ingredients out and mix them!) - and when I really need a break I offer a videotape (he gets bored after 20 minutes but at least I have had a chance to do something else !!!!)

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Enid · 17/04/2002 12:56

No amazing tips I'm afraid, but would love to hear from anyone with a cure . Thought I'd share my experiences...dd is 28 months. She has been very difficult today and WAS the original 'child from hell' at her singing/music group this morning. I am also pregnant (15 weeks) and also feel that I have reached the end of my tether - burst into tears after the group and had to pull into a layby! She has been as good as gold since we have been home. I have no tips other than just doing what you can to survive what I am sure is just a phase. When I am feeling stronger I am very good about distraction/humour/ignoring tantrums, all the positive coping strategies I can employ. But sometimes I just feel like yelling at her. I try to keep things in perspective (She's not really that bad, I've seen lots worse etc) and I try not to tell her 'no' unless I really feel she is doing something naughty/dangerous. Otherwise I feel as though I spend the whole day being negative and telling her off.

Luckily she still has a good hour's sleep in the middle of the day - she is twice as bad without it and it gives me some time to unwind.

At the back of my mind I feel she hasn't had much attention from me lately (I went away without her this weekend and I've been preoccupied with pregnancy) so I have vowed to spend this afternoon with her doing something fun (park and ducks I expect!). Hopefully it will make us both feel better!

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bundle · 17/04/2002 12:59

pop, does your ds like little fiddly things? my dd is fascinated by stickers and will play for ages sticking tweenies, or even just shapes onto brightly coloured paper..a lot less messy than painting and could help - alongside all the excellent suggstions from pupuce. I'm finding with discipline that distraction works well - saying no all the time just gets boring for a 21 mth old and suggesting something else to do often does the trick. good luck with the pregnancy..are you able to get any help so you can rest during the day?

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starmoon · 17/04/2002 15:33

My 2 1/2 year old daughter has just started the terrible twos, to be honest I thought I had got away with it, but here they are. If Phoebe doesnt have a sleep during the day she gets worse and worse. At playgroup on Monday she didnt want to come home, I managed to get her into her pushchair
by bribeing her but then when I was trying to do
the buckle up she was pulling my hair. I could see
people looking as though to say what a terrible little girl!! Do they grow out of this fairly soon?

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Azzie · 17/04/2002 16:02

Eventually....

My dd started the terrible twos at 18 months and at 2 1/2 is still going strong. I think the frequency of tantrums has decreased but the force and duration have definitely increased! Last night we had 3/4 hr of screaming because dh took her pyjamas into her bedroom and she wanted to put them on in the study.

The other day she was messing around about getting into her car seat (15 minutes and counting...); I was so tired, hungry and fed up, and so was her brother, that I finally snapped and shouted at her:"For God's sake, get in your bl*dy car seat!" She stopped what she was doing, looked at me very coolly and said "I not get in my bl*dy car seat Mummy". Cue instant shame on my part - I just hope that the neighbours missed the whole performance!

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Cl · 17/04/2002 16:59

Keep repeating it's just a phase!! Set yourself boundaries of what you will accept and what you won't. Don't be too hard on yourself or them - it's too exhausting always fighting - then either "do deals" ie if you don't eat your main course you can't have sweets, but you could have yoghurt and fruit - for example, if it;s something unacceptable and the tantrum starts try the ignoring tactic. Leave the room, or put them somewhere else, turn up the CD and let them scream it out. Go in periodically and ask them if they'll behave, or if they want a cuddle and 99% of the time they eventually wear themselves out/ give in for a cuddle (it can take half an hour or more but at least it's tiring them out- and amazingly they don't seem to bear grudges) I usually then follow that up with a distraction/ treat something that's not giving in but lets them save face and know you care. I also used and still do use Tv/videos quite a lot for my sins - both as a treat and as a rest-time for both of us. Most kids love a snuggle up on the sofa and you can nod off and they feel they have some time with you. It's a good habit to get into as well for when the babies come - eg at bedtime my daughter gets bathed with her baby brother but is then allowed to watch half and hour of Tv on her own downstairs cos "she's so grown up" which actually allows me to get him down in peace. I am no expert and you have my sympathy - good luck

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pop · 17/04/2002 17:52

I am reassured that everyone else seems to be going through similar. I find myself constantly using threats eg if you don't do that we won't whatever and I don't know if this is the right thing to do or not. I feel like there isn't an ultimate threat (that sounds awful!) where if I use it it guarantees success. I think my son's behaviour does seem directly linked to tiredness but don't know how to get around this as he is not ready to go to sleep at the time he had been and would ideally go to sleep at 4 or 5 which is no good for getting to bed at 7.30. What does everyone else do re sleep in the day? I seem to feel guilty a lot of the time at the moment 'cos I get really cross and then feel awful. How am I going to cope when the other 2 come along??!!!

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pupuce · 17/04/2002 18:50

DS is border line dropping his daytime nap- he doesn't want it but he does need it... I try quiet times with books or a video between 13 and 1400.
I know what you mean by if you don't do that, we won't...

I try to make it positive, hence I try to think of ideas before I am confronted with the problem. Otherwise I find I am as penalised as he is... example : we told him that if he didn't nap we would not make pancakes or go to the park... well he didn't sleep so WE had a ruined afternoon as we would have fancied the pancakes and the walk

I just try to really change the subject - NOT always possible but definitely worth trying and perservering. So if he does something naughty like throwing all his toys away on a nice piece of furniture, I'll tell him to stop, take himaway and say let's go outside and see if we can.... take him AWAY from the situation. If he is very grumpy for a reason I will also try to get him to an activity he enjoys like cooking.

Hope this helps.

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Flo2 · 17/04/2002 19:29

Azzie - are you sure this is your child and not mine of which you speak?! We have exactly the same pyjama and car seat struggles.

I tried to get round the car seat battle by allowing her a 'little drive' in the front before getting her to climb into seat but this has really backfired on the occasions when we really don't have time. Now I often drive home with her screaming her head off in the back...

She does, however, climb in quite quickly if I say 'You need to be quick, it's a bit dangerous'.

I'm sure it's completely not the done thing but we had to instigate 'a naughty step' at home. If she really pushes her luck we plonk her on the bottom step of the stairs, tick her off thoughly explaining she can come back in when she's sorry, and close the lounge door on her. She usually comes in pretty quickly and does whatever it is we wanted her to do.

But I did catch her adminstering a fine old rollocking to Tigger on the naughty step yesterday.. I laughed so much I phoned my partner at work to tell him...

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mollipops · 18/04/2002 07:46

Pop, it does sound like most of ds's behaviour stems from tiredness (we all get cranky when we are tired after all!) His hyperactivity (and defiance) is probably because he is overtired. And don't worry, he's not turning into the child from hell, he's just acting his age!!!

First, have a rest time in the afternoon, even if it's just quiet music (relaxation or lullaby cd's are great and the babies will like it too!) and a few books. He might not think he needs it, but he does and so do you! Lay down together on his bed or loll on the couch. Make the room a bit darker too. He may nod off, he may not, but at least he is relaxing plus he has the bonus of your full attention which he will love of course!

Next, how is the toilet training going? If it's not going well, maybe it's not a good time to do it? I know you probably don't want to have him in nappies as well as the twins, but you can't hurry these things and if he's not ready (as well as going through a defiant phase!), you are just setting yourself up for trauma on a daily basis! (Been there done that with dd, now going thru it a second time with my ds, hopefully a little wiser this time round!) Of course, this may be irrelevant if he is doing well...!

So far as being impatient goes, don't be too hard on yourself. If ds is pushing your buttons all day you are bound to be feeling stressed out. Take a few deep breaths, try to remain calm and in control. You are "the boss", you can't let him walk over you just because you are too tired or stressed, or he will keep trying you out to see what he needs to do to get a reaction from you. I think Flo2's idea of time-out is good (though sorry I don't like the name "naughty" as it implies they are "bad" rather than what they have done is IYKWIM - we have a Quiet Chair instead, at dd's school they have a Thinking Corner!) We use the microwave timer as it has a nice loud beep, a minute for every year they are (3 minutes for ds, 5 for dd). If they get up out of the chair, the timer is re-started. We haven't had to use it for a while, and when we started they seemed to spend quite a few minutes in there every day, but once they realised it was the real deal, they stopped testing it out.

Choices are a good way to go, as well as good old bribery, if you do X now, we will do Y later. Giving two choices works really well though, since it gives them some say in what happens next. Eg you come and have your bath now or you sit in the chair for 2 minutes - what do you choose? Plus the usual - praise good behaviour like crazy, ignore tantrums and whining as much as possible (!), BE CONSISTENT (eg don't let them get away with something today that they got time-out for yesterday!), distraction tactics, and positive phrasing (eg "walk on the path please", rather than "don't walk on the road please." The last one really works...someone explained it to me once like this - if I say to you, "Don't think of a purple elephant" what is the first image that pops in your head? Right, a purple elephant! So when you say "Don't walk on the road", they are left thinking about the road, not the path! Rather than saying what you DON'T want them to do, say what you DO want instead!

Sorry to go on, HTH though! Be strong you can do it! And just remember, this too will pass!

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Rhubarb · 18/04/2002 13:49

Mine is exactly the same! She is 21 months nearly and about 3 weeks ago she changed from a sweet, laid back, gentle and contented little child to a monster from hell! She has always been clingy but now she is pushing it to the extreme! She would be happy to sit on my knee all day long. I don't get a moments peace, I have to give her one-on-one attention all the time or she will start to have a tantrum. If I take her to toddler groups she just clings to my legs, if I stand up to go to the toilet or to fetch myself a cup of tea she starts to scream and cry hysterically. I once managed to sneak off whilst she was playing, she was only about 5 feet away from me, but when she saw I had moved her face crumpled and she stood there utterly devastated until I finally gave in and went to get her.

I know people say it's just a phase but I would like to know exactly how long this is going to go on for and what I should do about it! I mean, do I keep giving in to her, or should I leave her to scream? I don't want to upset her but then I am aware that maybe I need to encourage a bit more independance on her part. If someone so much as looks at her these days she buries her face in my knee and refuses to look until they have gone away. It's all very embarrassing when some little old lady just wants to say 'hello'!

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mollipops · 19/04/2002 07:22

Clinginess, shyness and fear of "strangers" (along with tantrums and biting/hitting!) is very normal around this age (about 18-23 months). Generally most children are much more independent and less clingy by age 2 or so...it's not far away!!! But they are just getting used to being their own selves, and it's pretty huge. Their imagination is starting to run amok too...and the world seems a little bit scary. As mum you are the safe haven, even if it feels like you are being hidden behind/clung to or followed around half the day!!! Even if they are happy to leave you, they don't like the idea that you might leave them! IT WILL PASS, honest...grit your teeth and smile. Soon it will get better!

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AtkinsR · 19/04/2002 09:33

I've been there too Pop. My dd was 2 1/2 when I started maternity leave and, the moment I left work, became the child from hell. This lasted for 6 months or so until she started nursery school which calmed her down a lot. It is SOOOOO hard, but everyone's right. It is a phase.

It's important to get some time to yourself if you can. Is there anyone who can look after your son for a couple of hours every now and then so you can relax now and spend some time with the baby when it comes along? Helps put things in perspective too when you get a break.

There are some excellent tips here which should help you ride it out. Hopefully, with the warmer weather, just being able to get out more, parks, walks etc will help. You can have a sit down too while he runs around - that's the theory anyway. Good luck!

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Daffy · 08/07/2002 13:40

About what age should they start not needing a daytime nap? My ds is 22 months old now and has suddenly gone from sleeping a good 2 hours last week to not wanting to sleep at all over the weekend and today! I wouldn't mind but he is tired I had to wake him up as he had fallen asleep in the car two minutes from home today.

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Enid · 08/07/2002 14:11

Daffy, dd stopped needing a daily daytime sleep about a month ago (she's 2.5), but I know lots of her friends havent had one since they were about 2.

She does get tired still, so she has a daytime sleep every 3/4 days or so to 'top her up'.

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jessi · 08/07/2002 15:34

Daffy, the indicator is, I think, when they are still having their nap and then not settling to sleep at night/or waking up at the crack of dawn. That is when you have to weigh up the benefits to you all, if you don't mind your child up 'til late then the naps are fine. I however, want my ds to go to sleep at 7.30 not 10.30pm..so very regretabley those daytime naps have gone!

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