so devastated for my daughter - what would you do in this situation?(31 Posts)
Tonight my 11 yr old dd2 went to a friend's batmitzvah. It was a lovely party and she came back full of beans and bursting to tell me all about it. In doing so she mentioned that she had seen some of dd3's friends there . Dd3 is 9 and in the same class as the batmitzvah girl's sister. I asked who of the batmitzvah's girl's sister's friends were there and dd2 recalled the names of everyone in that class. Everyone except dd3. I questioned her quite closely to make sure she did she all the girls in that class ( there are only 11 of them ) and it turns out she did. Apart from one girl who is on holiday ( so she might have been invited).
So that means that the whole of dd3's class ( the girls anway) were invited to celebrate this girl's batmitzvah and not dd3.
To say I am devastated and heartsick is an understatement. I hardly know what to say to dd3 tmorrow as when she goes to school they are all going to be talking about it. She will then realise that she was the only one not invited. Dd3 suffers from feelings of inferiority and feels that she is unpopular anwya so this is likely to make matters 100% worse.
I am half thinking of keepign her off school tomorrow and taking her and dd2 who has no school tomorrow ( dd2 is in high school) to the local shopping centre to spoil them and out for lunch. Hopefully by the time tuesday comes the buzz of this party will have worn off and the girls won't be talking about it so much so there is a chance that dd3 will not know that she was the only one excluded.
I want to mentoin to the mum involved that dd3 was the only one not invigted and see what she says. I suppose I want to reassure myself that it was an oversight/mistake etc although if she quotes numbers etc I will know that it is an excuse as there were 100s of people there according to dd2 and also a few adult friends who were there.
In my situation would you keep your daughter off school and if not how would you prepare her and would you talk to the mother?
I think wetware it may be worth considering the cultural importance of a batmitzvah and it is possibly is a little more than just a kids party. The celebrations associated is of great importance in many communities, therefore the exclusion of one child in a very close nit school community may have quite bigger consequences on a family than just being excluded and the child not being bothered.
I do think your dd is less upset than your self, however I think you should consider all your options and maybe removing your dd from the school may ostracise her or your self even more. It seems to me that the mothers actions are stronger than the child's, could she be aiming this at your self for some reason and if so do you feel it important to get along with her or could you alley your self with some other friendships?
Gosh I really think you need to calm down about this! It's a kids party , they need to take this stuff on the chin - the word devastating is far too big for such a small, every day occurrence.
You seem very involved with her life - yet she seems far more relaxed than you!
Try to pull back and not get involved at this level - are you generally am anxious person?
OP - do you think that your DD is being excluded by her peer group or do you think that you are being excluded by your peer group (the other mothers), who are using your DD as a pawn in their own game?
I too think you need to separate the issues . It seems your dd has shrugged this incident off and it may serve as cautionary tale about who to invite to her own event. However your concerns about the school and limited friendship groups are something which you can address. If she is lacking confidence and feeling undermined then maybe a move is a good idea. What out of school activities does she do ? Small classes can be very restrictive and lend themselves to this type of behaviour. How many years does she have before moving to secondary anyway ? It may be better to stick it out if a year or so and just unobtrusively go elsewhere to the others at that point.
It sounds like you care far more about this than your DD does. It doesn't sound like it's too painful for her to talk about, it sounds like she's just not bothered - unlike you. Let it go!
I agree with Getorf - if you feel that the school is not right for your dd, consider the alternatives sooner rather than later. Ds was the victim of a lot of sustained low level bullying and exclusion. It was much more damaging than the more obvious bullying. The other thing it did because I let it go on was to drive a huge wedge between me and the parents of the other children (who are a big part of my community). I find that hard and it has destroyed many of my relationships - I get the sense that this may be true for you too.
There is a lot of tribal behavior by mothers in my DD's school. Honestly, the best policy is to rise above it. Some people like to function by excluding others and so if you react, you are giving them what they want - a victim to bully/ exclude.
That's really strange lisa. It would seem that she must feel guilty hence why is trying to ask your dd why you were phoning. It's a bit odd that the mum would veto your dd going, in favour of someone else to build bridges with. I also think it's mean sprited and also daft to exclude just two children from a class.
I hope your dd is ok today. I would say listen to your instincts about school. If you have doubts about your dd's happiness in the school I would look into it further. My dd had a lot of low level unhappiness at school in year 7, I just insisted we plough on througha, but it escalated into bullying when she was in year 9 and she ended up moving schools then. It is very daunting thinking of moving senior school, but sometimes it is the best action, I wish I hadn't dithered over it.
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What I see in that is that your DD is not being excluded by the girls in her class - her friend wanted to invite her. It is the mother who has a problem as she vetoed it. You say this is not about numbers, as there were lots of people there, so it must be something else to do with the mother. (unless the daughter was lying).
That doesn't help you get to the bottom of it though.
I'm glad your dd is OK with the situation.
I suspect the 'bat mitzvah Mum' feels apprehensive (guilty?) about speaking to you because she knows it was wrong to exclude your dd and one other. Perfectly fine to not invite everyone, but horrid to exclude only a few.
Do you intend to call her again? What will you say?
Ok so first found out that another girl was excluded. This girl also feels isolated in teh class and has been the subject of bullying. This girl is a teacher's daughter in the school . I caled the class teacher first thing and was about to speak when she interrupted me and said she knew what it was about as another of the mums had already been to see her and told her that all the girls apart from my dd and this other girl had been invited and there may be talk in the playground which would be hard for these 2 girls. very impressed with this girl's mum. It was the mum of one of the girls who had been invited and had been shocked to see all the girls in the class there but my dd3 and the other girl - let's call her R.
the teacher said she is going to do a circle time and talk about inclusion and also quash any talk of post party stuff .
I was dreading dd coming out of the playground but she was very upbeat and turns out she knew about not being invited!! At a playdate with this girl whose batmitzvah it was the girl conefssed that she wanted to inivte dd but her mother vetoed it infavour of anohter girl in the class whose mother she had apparantly fought with years ago but saw this as a good opportunity to mend bridges. This gilr told dd who was not bothered apparently enough to even mention it to me . Quite possibly she didn't twig that all the girls were invited.
Took dd out for supper and to buy some girly stuff together. She was incredibly relaxed and non committal and when I tried to draw it out of her how she ws feeling she changed tghe subject. I got the feeling the whole thing was too painful so she shoved it under the carpet.
I decided to call this other mum but she never answered her phone.
To my shock though tonight dd and dds1 and 2 went to a concert at dd1's school ( dd1 is 16) and all 3 sat together. Behind them sat the batmitzvah girl's mum (!) whose daughter who was batmitzvah is at the same high school as dd1. AFter the concert this mum had the bloody gall to approach dd3 in front of dds1 and 2 ( who said they were a bit intimidated to respond) and say " oh hello x. I got a missed call from your mum today do you know why she called me?". To which dd3 said no she didn't know. As she didn't indeed know that I called or why I called. Then this mum said " are you sure you don't know?" in a very wheedly whiney voice. She only moved away when dd3 again repeated that no, she didn't know!
I am even more furious now. How dare she approach my child and ask that. Perhaps approach and apologise and acknowledge how dd may be feeling ( even though she seems fine about it ) but to start questioning her???? On whcih planet is she living??
Obviously very awkward and potentially devastating for your dd, assuming your dd2 has it correctly. Worth making that call to the mum first. However I suspect the less you dwell on it, the less she will. By all means be prepared for having to gee her up after school but I do feel you may be overegging it , perhaps because you feel the slight more keenly.
I think you ve decided on a good course of action.
I feel terribly for your dd - it s awful to be excluded, it will be good of you get to spend time with her and chat and see of she felt excluded or not. As others suggest she might be able to rise above it. However she might also know it would upset you and be trying to 'protect' you from feeling upset for her so having a chat about it is a good idea.
It does sound a little unusual that one of the girls was excluded. For that reason, and the fact that your daughter has previously need invited to that girls house, I do think you could gently enquire from the other girls mum as to why. You could just phone and say "thanks for inviting dd she had a lovely time, " then be completely honest and frank and say "look I don't want you to feel uncomfortable about this, and I m not suggesting my other dd is entitled to be invited and it s your party and your prerogative to invite whom you like to your party. However we have had some concerns about how well other dd is integrating in school, and it was mentioned that all the other children in her class were invited - did you mean to not invite dd 2? ". I honesty think it could have been an oversight. If there was deliberate exclusion then maybe there s a reason for it
can't understand how but maybe
I think as long as you don't go in with and sense of entitlement all guns blazing and the hostess become all defensive.
I've also decided to take up some suggestions here and take dd3 out after school for an ice cream treat as she needs some shoes anway so on an excuse that she needs the shoes we can spend some time alone and have a treat. Hopefully if she's feeling very upset she'll talk about it. I'm also goign to phone dd3's class teacher ( who I get on v well with) and just ask her to keep a watch on the girls particularly during playtime so that dd is not excluded/upset any more by talk of this party continuing during the class time.
Having slept on it I've decided not to take dd3 out of school today but may think about changing her school permenantly ( not due to this of course but she has felt excluded and not part of the group all her school life and there was also some bullying with one ogirl in her class - but not the girl whose sister had the batmitzvah so I think the time may just be ripe to move her).
NatashaBee they invited dd2 as the batmitzvah girl was in her class at primary school and they are now all in yr 7 but at different high schools. the batmitzvah girl invited her whole old primary class and it seems the younger sister followed suit inviting her whole current primary class but excluding dd3.
It must have been intentional ( as in dd3 was not invited - not that she intended to hurt or exclude as that I cannot know and presume the woman is grown up enough not to do ) as I recall now receving the envelope through the post and it very clearly had just dd2's name on it and I have checked the invitation card itself which doesn't hav a name - just "X invigtes you to celebrate ...." etc so the name on the envelope woudl be who was invited.
I think you're completely overreacting. I would just assume it was an error.
Eh, I'm confused. Why would you take your daughter out of school (do you mean permanently) due to the actions of this friend or family. Sounds like your real issue is about something else?
From what you say it sounds like it was unintentional if your DD3 has had playdates with her.
Tbh I wouldn't approach the mum. I think it might be different if DD3 had been excluded from her friends batmitzvah, but to not be invited to her sisters friends batmitzvah is different. (even if her class were there)
I'd probably take the
passive aggressive approach og 'DD2 had a lovely time at so and so's batmitzvah, she said there were loads of people there. You already have an opening to discuss the party, as your DD2 was there. and see what she says. You could then go on to talk about DD3's up and coming batmitzvah if she's not forthcoming.
Personally I wouldn't have the guts to ask straight out why DD3 wasn't invited, especially as it wasn't her friend but her sisters.
Sorry a bit rambly!
There is a chance my dd2 was mistaken of course but she described what the other 11 girls were wearing etc so I don't think so. Most of the other 11 mums were there as they are friendly with the batmitzvah girl's mum. However at least 2 of the 11 had no mums there so can't use that as an excuse
I do know the hosting mum fairly well. She is an ex head mistress herself so surely should have known how her actions would have been taken. In fact we invited the batmitzvah girl's sister to a soft play centre in the feb half term with dd3 and it was reciprocated in the same half term week with dd3 going to their house. So I don't think dd3 is disliked by this girl.
It is my own dd2's batmitzvah in 6 weeks and ironically the only girl dd3 wants to invite is the girl who excluded her .
I'm a bit meh with this school anway for various reasons ( long and complicated) and feel like using this as straw that broke camel's back and just pulling her out.
Can I ask you all- if you decided to approach batmitzvah girl mum what would you say? I can't keep it in- I'll go mad seeing her in the playground every day if I do
No, the girls would have been talking about it already, so sounds very likely your DD isn't actually bothered about missing out at all - be careful not to project your own feelings onto her, it's understandable that you feel upset for her, but its only an issue if SHE is upset herself - & be careful about asking her as this can sew seeds in her mind that weren't there, though do make time to listen - can you take her out for 1-1 after school tomorrow perhaps & then raise it with the school by way of letting them look out for her if there any real problems
we've been through similar a few times with DD & trust me the DO chatter & talk in advance of any party at this age - especially if there is any malice involved by any one of them, this is the age the claws come out & your DD would have known they were all going & that she wasn't invited, its quite possible, as has been the case with my own DD recently, that she doesn't actually like the girl doing the inviting, realised this girl was trying to goad her, rose above it all & was genuinely glad not to spend any time with her she didn't have to.
Basically, be subtle, but make sure there really is a problem before you presume your DD is unhappy about not been invited
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