NK Cells - does anyone have these?

[irisblue]

Hello,

I've had two miscarriages and just been diagnosed with having a high NK cell count. Has anyone else had this and been treated successfully?

Thanks in advance for all your help
xx

[ZippysMum]

Hi Iris,
I was tested for immune issues and though NK cells weren't a big issue for me, other immune responses to pg were.
I was treated for those (steroids, IvIg, clexane, baby aspirin) and am now 31 weeks pg with twins - first round of ovulation induction with the immune treatments after 5 pg losses before 12 weeks and 6 years of trying.
Also have a friend who had high NK cells and was treated - she now has 2 dc's after 7 years of infertility.
Highly recommend Dr Beer's book 'Is your body baby friendly'.
Hope that helps!

[ZippysMum]

Book here

[irisblue]

Hi Zippysmum,

Thanks so much for your reply and congratulations! You must be so happy. I will definitely check out Dr Beer's book. I've been prescribed steroids and aspirin to start when I next ovulate, and then progesterone pessaries for pregnancy. Fingers crossed it works.

Did you have any side effects on the steroids?
xx

[ZippysMum]

Hi Iris,
Well, I also have arthritis so the only side effect of the steroids for me was that my arthritis completely went and I felt like SUPERWOMAN! (I kid you not, I was a bit gutted when I had to wean myself off them!). I was on 25mg per day at first, then stepping down by 5mg per week after 12 weeks.
Steroids and aspirin and progestorone (Cyclogest?) is a really good combo and I know lots of ladies have had success with just one of the 3! Also (though I am sure you wouldn't ) don't forget the folic acid - I was told that it's good to take a higher dose if you are on steroids for a while (though I don't know why.. might be worth asking your Doc.)
I know some NHS clinics are now prescribing steroids, but only for a week or so around implantation - if this is the case for you, the folic acid thing probably isn't important.
The very best of luck!

[irisblue]

Wow! That's a good plus for the steroids...! I am on 25mg steroids from ovulation and then cyclogest from a positive test - I keep on both until (fingers crossed) I get to 12 weeks. I would be over the moon if I got that far! Although I am so happy that you know people who've had success with just one of the three.

Thanks also for the folic acid tip - I take a pregnancy vit with folic acid, but will ask my dr if I need to take more.

Thanks again xx

[ZippysMum]

Hi Iris,
My friend with the 2 boys had treatment that went on till 12 weeks - mine went on for longer, but, as I said, minewas not NK cells but a different part of the immune response. Hope you don't mind me asking, but are you getting all this with the NHS? I know they are much more open to the idea that it might work now (trials at St Mary's etc.). Hope you are as I've heard of (and met) a large number of ladies for whom this treatment was the answer, and it's time it went more mainstream!
Very good luck and let us know how it goes! .

[Dozer]

Did you have the tests and treatment privately? Know that there is a trial for NKC in liverpool on the NHS, where they take a womb biopsy, but the NHS doctors are negative about the immunological blood tests.

[ZippysMum]

Hi Dozer,
I went private - but my local NHS infertility clinic were supportive in that they let me do the ovulation induction cycle with them (my last free one) and have the private immune treatments on top. We had to go to London for the immune treatments, though now my local NHS do offer the steroids for a week around implantation.

[irisblue]

Hi Zippysmum,

I went privately as I 'only' had two miscarriages and the NHS won't refer you until you've had three. Both were mmcs and the baby stopped growing at the same time, and I just knew that it wasn't 'bad luck'. Also, I'm very impatient and wanted answers asap! I got my results back in ten days which was amazing. I'm so glad I went now rather than wait until I'd had a third mc - which I'm sure would have happened. The Dr said that without treatment I had a 30% chance of a successful pg and with treatment I have an 85% chance - so fingers crossed. It obviously might not work, but I just hope it does...

I really hope that the NHS start looking into NK Cells as from all the evidence (the Liverpool trials etc) it does seem to make sense.

I really hope it works for me! Will keep you posted and thanks again for all your advice xx

[Dozer]

There is a lot of dispute among doctors about the blood tests, as lots of doctors don't think that there is evidence; and the private tests are really expensive. There is a 2004 article in the BMJ by some British doctors, and the responses are on line.

www.bmj.com/cgi/eletters/329/7477/1283

I'd be interested in any more recent research or articles by doctors.

[irisblue]

Yes, there is still debate about it. There was a recent trial by doctors in Liverpool (they're now doing further trials) which had really good results. I think 30 out of the 40 women treated (who all had had more than 3 mcs) had successful pregnancies after treatment - pretty amazing odds I think.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article4720133.ece

The NHS is always behind private research and while it might not work, I'm going to give it go. I think the theory makes sense and I just want to try what I can! xx

[Dozer]

Thanks Iris Blue.

It doesn't actually say whether the 30 of the 40 were successful in their next pregnancy, or just whether they went on eventually to have a baby. Hope it was the former!

The new trial that they are doing up there at the moment is a randomised one, so if you are found to have the high NKCs you could get either the steroids or the placebo, you wouldn't know. Not sure I could handle the uncertainty of that - like you, if found I had the high NKCs, would want to give the treatment a go.

[ZippysMum]

Hi Dozer and Iris,
There's loads of peer-reviewed research studies in Dr Beer's book. Hundreds. I couldn't wade through them all (and some only seem very slightly relevant), but still what is lacking (or what has been till now) is a double-blind study. There is one going on now at St Mary's in London - I was asked if I wanted to take part but, like Dozer, I wanted to know I was getting the treatment, not a placebo!!

[Dozer]

There is information about immunology testing on the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority (HFEA website) www.hfea.gov.uk/59.html

[pinky78]

hi i have the nk cells i have also done the drug trials at liverpool womans unfortuantly it didnt work for me feel free to ask anythin

[irisblue]

Hi Pinky,

Did you have the steroids as treatment for the NK cells? Do you mind me asking how many times you tried treatment?

thanks xx

[sdefina]

Hi -
I went to Dr. Shehata's clinic in London and was diagnosed with high nK cells (through a blood test ) and am now on 25mg of steroids plus baby aspirin plus prenatal tablets (plus a drug to help with the unfortunate side effect of the steroid of upset stomach). Dr Shehata also got me tested for a hypothyroid condition as that is quite common in people with high natural killer cells. I do have hypothyroidism and hence am also taking thyroid hormone replacement.

However I do feel quite strange on the steroids. It is having a strage effect on my system (digestion mainly, with sometimes severe cramps in my lower intestine). Additionally, my cycle while always very regular is now quite irregular (sometimes ovulating on day 10, sometimes day 14) and the last two cycles were 25 and 24 days long when they were always previously 28. I have been through 4 cycles and am not pregnant yet when previously I always got pregnant on the first try (I have had 4 miscarriages at 12 weeks and 1 live birth).

I am wondering whether anyone else is having unusual symptoms on the steroids, and also whether is it common for it to take several months to become pregnant.

[Bala03]

Hi,
I have been going through same situation like u.i knew itsbquite old post.can u able to update ur treatment and successful pregnancy.is there any one out their going through same situation.pls reply.

[Starshine1]

Hi bala03,

I am just about to start the steroids. Have seen mr shehata and have borderline nk cells. Have been posting on a thread dr shehata on here, which has a few other ladies using steroids for nk cells x

[Eh1112]

Hi Bala03,

I had received treatment (steroids, clexane, intralipids, LIT, progesterone and baby asprin) last year with Dr Gorgy. I'd previously suffered six miscarriages (all first trimester). During the first cycle of treatment I fell pregnant and my healthy rainbow baby girl was born in December 2016. The treatment definitely made a difference for me. Good luck xx