How long is this heart wrenching going to last whenever I'm faced with

[Frazzlerock]

other pregnancies?

I have taken myself away from the dreaded FB to avoid all the baby bumps and newborns. I went back on today to check something and pretty much the first picture I'm greeted with is a loving grinning couple hugging and a beautiful round baby bump. My heart leapt into my throat and now I'm having anxiety problems.
This happens whenever I see pregnant women. A colleague at work took me to one side and secretly told me she is expecting. She wanted me to know first given our losses which was really lovely of her and I appreciated it so much. I told her so and also congratulated her, forcing a big smile. But I can't face her. Every time I do, my throat swells up and the anxiety comes back.

I miss my baby so much

It's been over a year since we lost our babies and I just want to feel genuinely happy and excited for others and stop feeling so strained.

I've tried counselling, CBT, a life coach, and anti depressants, but nothing seems to be working.

I think I feel better in myself, generally. But its those moments when I'm faced with pregnancies, which are obviously unavoidable, that I clam up again and want to burst into tears.

When does it get easier?

[Cocoabean25]

I don't know when it gets easier but wanted to let you know that I lost my baby 4 months ago and feel the same about seeing / hearing about pregnant people. It's a horrible feeling because you want to be happy for them but can't help feeling upset too. I don't have any advice but wanted to send you big hugs xx

[Frazzlerock]

Thank you cocoa. I'm so sorry xx

[Loopytiles]

Am very sorry you're going through this. Be kind to yourself and continue to seek help if it affects daily life. I had (private) counselling every few weeks for a long time, which became a place to talk about it and keep things "in a box" so could get on with the day to day IYSWIM.

For me, it was easier to be told by text/FB and not in person. only got easier once I became and stayed pregnant. I was very lucky.

[Frazzlerock]

Thanks Loopy only got easier once I became and stayed pregnant. I was very lucky.

I hear this over and over again. It seems like trying again is the only way to make peace with it. There must be another way though. TTC again is, sadly, not an option for us. At least not for the foreseeable future

[Mightyy]

Frazzle my love your pain is so obvious from your posts. I am so sorry for your losses of your babies.
Is it an option for you to go for it alone as your partner isn't willing to. I don't want to upset you more so please ignore my post if I have been insensitive.

[Frazzlerock]

thank you mightyy I know, I keep going on about it. Generally I am ok and the past week has been great. We have things to look forward to over the next few weeks. I feel like I've turned a bit of a corner and DP and I are getting on tremendously well, as we always did do. But now and again I get this awful pull when faced with pregnancies and new borns.

I can't keep avoiding them. In fact, I have tried to embrace them a bit more seeing as avoiding them doesn't help me. But still find this chest tightening and trying to stop the tears so very hard.

Going it alone isn't an option. What I'd like to do is think rationally, just like DP does.
He asked me to draw up a 'pros and cons' list the other day, but I said there is not a lot of point because the cons far outweigh the pros.
I need to learn to think sensibly, and not with my heart. But I haven't found out how yet.

When I see a pregnancy I am initially happy and genuinely so, but only seconds later it turns to pain. There has to be a way to stop it.

You know, DP has been asking questions about how it would work if I was to get pregnant re maternity etc, so he seems to be interested in thinking about it. But with my age, I can't leave it much longer. It is best that I try and think of our future without our child. I think I can do it, just got to keep busy. But its facing others that is so very hard.

Maybe it is just time, maybe it just takes longer for those who cannot try again for whatever reason. Maybe I am impatient but over a year of this is incredibly relentless for me, let alone everyone else.

[Mightty]

Frazzle it's kind of you that you didn't take offence to my words so I must appreciate you for that.
Over a year isn't a huge amount of time love and don't feel rushed that you have to move on from your losses.
I don't know what the solution is but I do know that you are overwhelmed and I hope that one day your burden will lessen.
I have also experienced losses and I know how devastating it is.

[Frazzlerock]

There was nothing offensive about your words. Trust me, I've taken a lot of crap on here! People on here can be disgustingly harsh at such a shit time, sadly.
I cannot see anything in your post that is offensive

I'm sorry you've also experienced losses

[Mightty]

Thank you. I hope better times awaits us both.

[TurquoiseDress]

Frazzle
So sorry for your loss and that you are feeling this way re other pregnancies.

I feel a similar way but I tend to gloss over my feelings and not really acknowledge how it all makes me feel.

Had a MMC almost 1 year ago- the sunny & warm weather is lovely but actually making me feel so sad and upset that's it's almost 1 year ago that we got the bad news at our dating scan

The comment another poster made about it getting easier once you are pregnant again/stay pregnant is something I've heard before.

Unfortunately my sadness is compounded by the fact we have been TTC since July last year.
I personally can't move on and be happy until I am pregnant again.

Wishing you strength to get through this difficult time.

[monkeytree]

Hi Frazzle
I still struggle with this - it is highly unlikely that I will become pregnant again but I suppose for me - most of my friends are done having children - are starting to go through the menopause etc and that does make it easier in a way. If I come into contact with women with babies I just don't befriend them for my own self protection and throw myself into other things. I don't work either so I suppose I'm not forced into the office situation with young women becoming pregnant etc, I think I would find that difficult. Now dc2 has stopped going to toddler groups, I am a bit more removed from it all, though she is a pre-schooler so lots of baby siblings etc but again I try to move away from those situations. I get agitated when I see toddlers/babies sometimes in coffee shops etc but try to ignore them. I'm coming up to 2 years of losing my ds through late mc (have two dd's) and it remains extremely painful. I saw a young boy who would have been a similar age to what my ds would have been in a restaurant yesterday and I felt swamped with grief but I have reconciled that it is always going to be this way, I just kind of roll with the good days and deal with the bad I suppose. I think in reality I would struggle with another dc (I am older now) but I do feel the gap left by ds most definitely and miss him - I think it is always going to be this way and it is difficult for others to understand - even dh doesn't 'get it' the way it affects me - and this makes me feel anger toward him and lonely I suppose. My friends never mention it, so I try to just get on with things but I do feel disconnected from those around me somehow, like I'm living in this secret 'other' world. DS would have been 2 at the end of this month and it seems I am the only one remembering that fact and mourning it even though it is true that I don't cry so much these days but even typing this I have a massive lump in my throat. Keep writing out your thoughts Frazzle - I think it helps, its been a while since I've done that, even admitting that I still find things extremely painful and that I should be more 'over it' than I am seems disallowed but as I said I don't think it is ever going to go away, I'm just trying to make the best of life with this empty space.

[Brenna24]

I am so sorry your losses. It is over 2 years since we started ttc, 20 months since we lost our first and a year since I last got pregnant (that I know of). I still feel like that and I can't see it changing without us finally managing to have a family of our own. Which is getting more and more unlikely by the day. My family and friend ship group is full of people having children and I just can't avoid it all.

I sincerely hope that you either manage to get pregnant again, or manage to come to terms with this a lot faster than me.

[eggsovercooked]

Hi Frazzle and everybody who has responded.

Frazzle, I have read quite a few of your posts and I feel absolute empathy for you and wish that I could help. In reality, I don't think I have anything particularly useful to say, other than that I think I understand. I have had two TFMRs in the last six months and I know how very painful it is to hope for a baby and believe it might be possible, only to have those hopes dashed. Re: other people's babies, my beloved sister is currently pregnant. We were due the same week. At the moment, I can't bear to even talk to her, let alone see her, and I hate myself for piling this on top of all the other pain, and inadvertently making her suffer too. At the weekend, a friend said to me that I should see my sister's baby as a means to lessen my pain. I am genuinely excited about the baby, but I think her comment revealed the lack of understanding from others sometimes, about the extent of this loss and the void it leaves, which unfortunately is not filled by other people's babies, however much you love them. As Monkeytree says, and I think we can all agree, there is an empty space.

Anyway, I am 44 now, and gradually accepting that there will not be a baby (I am incredibly fortunate because I do have two DC). I am only a month from my last TFMR now, but I think I am starting to understand more about grief and about myself - I don't see a point when I will be 'better' or over it, which seems to be what other people expect, but I do hope for a day when the anguish and longing is at least more manageable. I think that this might require primarily a lot of time passing and adapting to some kind of 'new normal.'

Sending everybody on this thread so much strength and good wishes. It's a very very hard journey. xxxx

[monkeytree]

Hi Eggsovercooked
I am just a year younger than you - also with 2 dc. I am sorry to hear about your tfmrs and the loss you have experienced, I am also having to face the prospect of no more dc. Regarding your sister - I think what you are feeling is perfectly normal in this situation. My sister in law gave birth just six months prior to when my ds was due and I am now estranged from her. I am not suggesting this with your sister and I really hope it gets easier for you, I think I am telling you this to demonstrate the profound affect it had on me. My relationship with my sister in law was always shaky and this was the final straw, most days I feel relieved that I do not have to see her or her child because it would be another thing to have to contend with and I really don't think it would help in the grieving stakes, it would probably make my longing all the worse. I am really sorry you and many other ladies find yourselves in this situation - it can feel incredibly isolating but you are not alone. On the whole it has got easier with time but I am often caught off guard and at the strangest moments, I think I have become far more introverted these days and far more pessimistic.

[eggsovercooked]

Hi monkeytree. I am so sorry for your loss too. It's a horrible and lonely place to be. After my first TFMR I was somewhat protected because I had a project - trying again. Now though, I don't have that hope. I have finally realised that, on the whole, women my age do not generally have babies. I have realised too that I was extraordinarily naive really. I knew there was a high risk of it not working out, but I wasn't aware just how high that risk was. I think I am a different person now too. I have always been a bit of an introvert but this has changed me, and I feel even quieter now. I don't know about you but sometimes I ponder the possibility of a miracle - that somehow a baby is in my future. But I know it's magical thinking because I am not prepared to go through the steps to make that a reality.

Re: my sister, it is a really difficult situation - so completely not my sister's fault, or mine for that matter, but her pregnancy is a constant reminder of what I have lost and I just don't know how to cope with that at the moment. I know this is making her sad and I feel awful that her pregnancy - which should be joyful - is being affected by my loss. I know I need to be strong for her but I am not quite there yet.

Take care - as you say, we are not alone although it feels so lonely. I have found enormous (perhaps the only) comfort in speaking to other women who understand.

[monkeytree]

Yes, I do ponder the possibility of a miracle but as you say the chances of things going wrong even if I were to miraculously become pregnant are so high that I am almost afraid to become pregnant again. I never expected to miscarry at 20 weeks after having two relatively normal pregnancies, I didn't see it coming and I honestly think I will never get over the shock of losing my ds so the prospect of going through that again feels too much. So yes although I realise that this is probably the end of the fertility line for me in a way I don't think I have actually come to terms with it fully, I seem to be stuck in a bit of a loop - maybe never will until menopause and even then there is always going to be one missing. I suppose I lean on looking forward to creating memories with my two dc and all the things we can do as dc2 gets older. I also think about grandchildren - dc may not ever have any but I see myself as a doting grandmother, it just gives me something to grasp onto I think, even though it is a long, long way off (dc1 is almost 11). Re your sister - tricky - I baled out but then my sister in law was never pleasant. Your sister sounds caring and sensitive to your feelings which in some ways makes it more difficult. I honestly don't know what I'd do - throw myself into aunty role, look on the little one as a new cousin - does she live in close proximity to you, is this her first child, I think there are various factors which might affect how you handle it. Perhaps it will be less of an issue as the baby grows, I don't know. I have a constant reminder of what should have been (a local woman had her dc one week after mine was due) and every time I see the child, I become distressed, so much so that we are looking to move though that is proving difficult, so unfortunately I am probably the worse person to answer this dilemma as my approach seems to try and escape. Hoping someone might come along with a different handle on this situation who can give you some more positive advice. I wish I knew more ladies like you in RL as none of my friends can relate and really don't get it through (thankfully) no fault of their own.

[eggsovercooked]

Monkeytree, that must have been absolutely horrific, I am so sorry. I don't think that it is surprising that you are afraid to become pregnant again. I read somewhere that the decision on whether to try again often depends to some extent on the balance between hope and fear. I think after two TFMRs I am more on the fear side now, although I think if I was younger then hope would probably still prevail. I am still doing quite mad things like taking CoQ10, even though I know that I am not going to try again really. I totally understand being stuck in that loop, I am there too, my thoughts go round and round in circles. I don't know anyone in real life who has gone through something similar, but have found talking here and other places online a real lifeline. On that note, I think I have highjacked Frazzle's thread slightly (sorry Frazzle) but do feel free to PM me if you ever want to off-load.

[monkeytree]

Yes, if I were 4-5 years younger, I think I would definitely be more inclined to try again despite what has happened. DD2 was a miracle baby and like you I took a whole host of supplements but I really didn't expect to become pregnant with ds so no supplements etc. It's just too highly charged for me now at my age plus all the hope and disappointment month after month. And I have come to realise that even if I did have another child; they would never replace ds, I think there would always be all of those what ifs etc. I don't come onto the fertility/miscarriage forums so much these days probably just at poignant times like now, hopefully that means things have shifted in the grief stakes too. Likewise, please feel free to pm me also, there doesn't seem to be many women who are left without their rainbow baby after miscarriage - just a handful on mumsnet maybe x

[Frazzlerock]

Hi, I'm sorry I've been away a few days. I've not been ignoring you.
I'm sure this will be very long so I apologise in advance!

TurquoiseDress
I am so very sorry. I know exactly what you mean about the sunny days. All those plans we had with our babies and having to watch others experience it instead is gut wrenchingly hard.
I remember the TTC hell clearly. I have PCOS and it took a lot of years, patience, hospital appointments, and awful jealous feelings before I had my two DC.
I should be grateful for those boys and I'm trying so hard to try to accept that they will be my only 'babies'. Especially given the fact that so many people can't even have one. Why can't I just be satisfied?
Have you taken any medical steps towards TTC? What is the plan?
We also got our bad news at a scan. It is just so unexpected when you imagine a bouncy baby on the screen.

deckoff
These days it's less of a "sobbing for hours" and more of a numb ache and then crying in private occasionally now. But I'm by no means normal and don't know if I will be again, despite counselling. Same. And I am so very sorry for how much you've suffered. I've had two losses and can't get to grips with it, I can't imagine any more than that. I too barely speak to any of my pregnant or new parent friends. I just can't. I want to, but my anxieties go through the roof at the thought.

monkeytree! Lovely, I'm so pleased to see you here - well I'm not, but you know what I mean. It's good that you are protecting yourself from triggers but it is so very hard isn't it?
roll with the good days and deal with the bad - yes I do this. Though it is very hard to deal with the bad as, when I'm down, DP gets brought down too and we both become so depressed and miserable that we feel exasperated with eachother. I'm so scared that we will end up drifting apart, there is only so much we can both take.
living in this secret 'other' world - Exactly this.
My relationship with my sister in law was always shaky and this was the final straw - This is how I feel with my step SIL. We haven't known eachother very long but (and I'll talk about it further below) I get the feeling we will never see eye to eye now.
I am going to try and keep writing, but I feel like I only ever write when I'm at rock bottom, and I really want to write something more positive, I just don't know how to just yet.


Brenna24
My thoughts are with you. like I said to TurquoiseDress, I remember the TTC well and it was torturous

eggsovercooked
Firstly, thank you so much for taking the time to read my posts. They have been pretty awful. I started them to get some compassion and solidarity at such an awful time but, as you probably red, I was met with contempt and made to feel even worse than I already was. Mumsnet can be such a shit place sometimes. That was a very painful time, and I know I shouldn't let people get to me, but I'm only human. This is why I think I'll stick to the MC board from now on.
I'm so very sorry for your TFMRs. That must have been horrific to go through and I will never be able to imagine that kind of pain.
I totally understand your feelings around your sister. You cannot help how you feel, and you are totally within your rights to feel like you do.
You're absolutely spot on with everything you've said. And the project of trying again really does give you a fantastic focus and distraction. We tried again (and lost that one) but I immediately felt ok about it, knowing we were going to keep trying, only to be met with DP's change of heart. Now I don't know who I am anymore. Or the point of me. I was also naive, terribly naive. MC is common, but it happens to other people.....right? And MC is always obvious, you don't go to a scan thinking you're about to meet your beautiful little bundle, only to be met with stillness. You don't go into hospital to have your dead baby forced out of you, do you...
Why aren't we told of these possibilities? Why are we led down the garden path. Led to believe that we'll meet our babies nine months after conception? Bloody hell, I even went to breastfeeding classes and nearly bought a pram! We bought a house to fit us all in, and we live there now, with an empty nursery...
And even when we're told that something could go wrong before 12 weeks, we're not actually convinced it will happen to us, are we.

I wonder if this sort of thing should be taught in school. Never mind "you could get pregnant!" it should be "You might well have trouble TTC, or you might lose your babies" I was so scared of becoming pregnant as a teenager, little did I know of my condition which would fuck that up as much as it could.

eggs On that note, I think I have highjacked Frazzle's thread slightly (sorry Frazzle) but do feel free to PM me if you ever want to off-load.
No you haven't at all! I want this to be about all of us. We seem to be the minority in the babyloss world. Everyone else is able to try again and has that amazing focus. Lets stick together and support eachother through this shit, shall we?


Me? Well I had a very tough day yesterday. After a wonderful weekend. Actually after a wonderful couple of weekends. The weekend before DP and I went up to Manchester to see the Courteeners, then stopped by Stratford-Upon-Avon for a bit of quiet couple time. Then this weekend we went to a family wedding.

The turning point was yesterday. DP's dad had invited us via the dreaded FB to a Father's Day pub meal. I checked to see who was invited and I noticed DP's Step sister (the one who had a baby - see my many other threads) had been invited and she was no longer a friend. I knew she'd hidden me, as I had done to her. Because she wanted to turn a blind eye to our pain, basically. I hid her as her pregnancy was, quite frankly, killing me. But she had actually de-friended me. I know it is only FB and doesn't mean anything but I just don't understand her attitude. Maybe I'm selfish to think I'm the one who has lost two babies, therefore she is the privileged one. Fuck knows. To think I even sent her baby a cute little gift before he came along, I wish I hadn't bothered. I barely got a thankyou, despite how excruciating it was to walk into that Baby Gap and buy something.

I mentioned to DP that she's de-friended me and he said she'd done it ages ago and that it doesn't mean anything. She just didn't want to see my posts. I hate FB for making me feel like this.

And my colleague has suddenly sprouted this week. I can't look at her. She came over to talk to another colleague of mine and I wanted to run out of the office. It took all my will to keep me seated and sane and calm. But I felt so angry. Not angry at her, just angry at the whole unfairness of it all. Then I feel angry at myself for feeling so hard done by when there are far worse things going on in the world right now. I feel like there are two people fighting to the death in my head.

The confusing thing is, this weekend at the wedding, I overheard another guest telling her friends she is nearly nine weeks pregnant and she was so excited and so happy. This was the exact time Emily left us. The exact time our lives changed. I couldn't help but think "what are you doing woman! Why are you so happy and so oblivious that this time tomorrow, you baby may not be alive anymore!" This is the way my mind works now.
The confusing thing was, I told DP how I was feeling and he said "awww, that will be us one day..." Granted he was 'merry' at the time, but this 'flip flopping' is just so confusing. And "one day"? When? I'm nearly 38 years old. I'm not exactly a spring chicken and I have fertility issues. What if he changes his mind and my body decides to stop ovulating like it did when I was TTC the DC? It could take years and then it might be too late.

I guess I can't just relax with the idea that he might change his mind, but he might not, you know?

Sorry for the epic writing
(I can't even be arsed to check through it so I apologise if it doesn't make sense)

[eggsovercooked]

Hi Frazzle, I am just writing because I didn't want you to think I hadn't read this. I am having a FRANTIC few days at work but as soon as I can am going to reply properly. In the meantime sending you lots of strength and good wishes.

[Monkeytree]

Hi Frazzle, likewise as Eggs has said re franticness - but really appreciate your well considered response to the above posts, hope to check back in soon x