the dreaded thing has happened

[redpyjamas]

The papers for my ex applying for a contact order arrived yesterday.
He is abusive, controlling, narsissistic (sp?) and generally completely unsuitable to see the children unsupervised. Apart from anything, there is a substantial risk of abduction, but how do I prove such a thing?
So far he has chosen to see them only 4 times (in 6 years)in a contact centre as I insist on that, and contacted them by letter a handful of times.

Please, I just want someone with experience to tell me what the chances are that he would win the right to have unsupervised access.

what can I do?

is there a chance that he'll lose interest and drop the matter? I mean, he does not even live in this country, and is not genuinally that bothered with the children. He just likes control. That is why he is doing this. Why now, after 6 years?

I am so upset, as you can probably tell.

Any positive reassurance, or personal experience welcome.

I know I need to sort out a solicitor. Just wanted to hear some helpful words before that...

[BurningBright]

I can't offer any advice, but didn't want you to go unanswered. I'm sure someone will be along with some sensible advice soon. But you really do need to sort out seeing a solicitor as soon as possible.

[HOLLY23]

You really need to see a solicitor asap.

[Hassled]

All I can add is that if the children don't already have passports, apply for them now (so he can't) and keep them somewhere very very safe.

[redpyjamas]

thank you everyone.

thankfully I have their passports safely, but I know that he could easily get past that by fraud. He knows the 'right' people.

has anyone here got experience of the whole proceedings from start to finish?

[redpyjamas]

another thing that bothers me is how he drives when in a rage. I just have strong memories of him speeding along the motorway with one hand round my neck, the other literally thumping the steering wheel. And loud vulgar music pumping (with baby and 2 year old in the back).

Who is to say he won't do this again with the new wife?

Do the courts take past behaviour into account, as proof of probable current behaviour trends? I mean, I can't prove that he has changed. I can only tell my experience of him. He claims he's changed.

I will call passport office for info.

[CKelpie]

I suppose it depends how intent he is on being abusive and controlling.
Your ex has not bothered that much so far and if he is in another country I imagine it will be quite difficult for him to pop back and forth to court nevermind for contact.

What age are your children - are they able to express an opinion on contact yet?

And the grounds you have for insisting on supervised contact are going to be the deciding factor.

Generally the court/mediation will try to develop contact to the point of unsupervised staying contact except where there is a risk to the children.

Make sure you are very clear with the solicitor when you explain your reasons.

You will probably find you are going to have to make compromises on some aspects in order to get what you want where it matters.

If you ask your solicitor, I believe there is an order you can obtain that will prevent him from taking the children out of the country without first obtaining permission from the court.

[CKelpie]

Sorry cross posts there, you should certainly raise anger issues with your solicitor.

That kind of irresponsible behaviour does put you dc's at risk and domestic violence is a definite reason for keeping him away.

See a solicitor asap.

[CKelpie]

Sorry grammar adn spelling shocking this eve. Shall log off now!

[redpyjamas]

thanks for your messages.

I have now managed to contact a solicitor who specialises in DV cases. Seeing her on Friday.

will just prepare myself for the worst, and get measures in place.

so depressing that he can't just leave us to get on with life. but I suppose that goes with the whole abuser job description.

[redpyjamas]

It was dd's 8th birthday today. He sent absolutely nothing. Not a card. But he did manage to send other dd a birthday card an money last year on her birthday. He just doesn't think of them and their feelings in the slightest. It is all about him.
Maybe something will come a little late. I can but hope. Interestingly, it has not even occurred to her that he has not sent anything. Not a single comment. He obviously means a lot in her life. Grr!

[N1]

What level of contact is the children's father asking for?

[redpyjamas]

He has not been more specific than to say that he wants to see them outside of the contact centre. Obviously, under usual circs this would be expected. But their safety would be at risk if he did not see them under supervised conditions.
I believe it is a control issue, not a genuine desire to see the children because on the few occasions he has seen them, he has either arrived extremely late, or cut the visit short.

[N1]

When the children see the father, are the children pleased? Do they enjoy the time?

[CarGirl]

I wonder if you can argue that they don't have enough of a relationship with him to spend time with him yet. I would argue you want weekly visits at the contact centre for a year or something like that.

[redpyjamas]

Cargirl - I could try to argue that, but I doubt that he would be expected to do that, especially as he does not live in the country. Not sure the children would be pleased with such regular visits anyway. Maybe he'd have to bother to see them at the contact centre a lot more regularly than he has been though. I mean, less than once a year on average is not a good track record.

N1 - They have been pleased to see him on the 4 visits that have materialised, although not overly excited. And they barely mention him at other times. It is me who has to bring up the subject if it ever does - e.g. suggesting that they write a letter to him. dd has done so once. She prefers to write to other pen-friends. There is just no relationship worth speaking of.

[N1]

Have you stopped contact or said that the father couldn't have contact?

From what I can tell, the father can see the children in a supervised environment but not unsupervised. He wants to see the children unsupervised and you objecting to the unsupervised but not objecting to supervised.

The father wants a contact order but hasn't said what he wants yet.

Has the father asked anything specific (about contact) from you that you declined?

[redpyjamas]

N1 - why are you asking so many questions?

He has just said that he wants to see them outside of the contact centre and without supervision, but no more specific than that. I already said that.

[N1]

I am trying to figure out why the man wants to make an application to the court. I can't see that he has grounds to make the application.

CAFCASS will be involved and I am assuming they will apply the private law pathway plan, as they should. If I (though not limited to me) can figure out why there is an application in court and what he wants, I might be able to make a suggestion about how to avoid court.

[redpyjamas]

Are you a solicitor?

I think he is making an application because he hates to feel that anyone else is 'controlling' him. He wants it to be on his terms. He hates to feel that he does not have power over the matter.

Of course, if seeing the children and building a relationship with them was his priority, that would have already come across in these last 6 years.

Also of course, if he thinks his actions might upset and worry me, all the better.

Another possible motivation for him (just my guess) is that his new wife (well, not that new) might be influencing him. She is pregnant (apparently). He may wish to show what a great devoted dad he is. But it is all words and promises, no actions.

I expect she is living the nightmare now. Poor her.

What is the private law pathway plan?

[N1]

I am not a solicitor, nor a barrister, nor a Judge.

private law pathway in HTML

[CKelpie]

"I think he is making an application because he hates to feel that anyone else is 'controlling' him. He wants it to be on his terms. He hates to feel that he does not have power over the matter. "

Well that sums up my ex quite nicely too. I have been all the way through the court process and at the other end, I was celebrating the end not so long ago.

It turns out that my ex feels that I am bound by a court order and he can behave exactly as he wishes. Ds does not feel able to speak up to his dad but has asked me to do it for him. I have a feeling my fight is only just beginning too.

It sounds like your dcs are able to say what they want without fear - push for a CAFASS report, their opinions should be taken into account (and fyi, my ds(9) did not feel at all 'cross examined', it was very gentle on him).

Good luck RedPJs.

[mrsmortenharket]

would also add that there is something called "gillick competence" that (under circumstances where medical treatment is an issue, then the child's age has less bearing on things than their mental maturity. not sure if there is an equivalent for this tho. hth xx