Zurich with a 5yo

[pinkbutterflys]

I have a choice to make.

Stay in London hope for the best in the super difficult navigating the private school system here (she’s in one but we plan to move in year 3, she will start year 1 in September)

Move to Zurich with no rent and come back for junior school in London.

We are waiting to see if the firm will pay international school fees as well as accommodation but as dd is only just 5 I’m thinking that I could potentially send her to a state kindergarten part time and keep up with the U.K. curriculum at home with me teaching dd. I already teach her a lot at home and spend a lot of time with her. Just wondering if I’m holding her back if she didn’t keep up with full time school to return in a couple of years.

Anyone have any clue if this sounds absolutely daft given the way the Switzerland education system is so different to U.K.

[FrankFrankSam]

My DCs, 8&6 were born in CH and we returned to London for the start of this school year. They were in local school in CH. They are massively behind the other kids in their class in UK, not just in English but also maths too. I always tried to teach them English reading and writing whilst we lived in CH but i never taught them phonics.

They sat entrance exams for private schools but failed them because their phonics let them down, so now they are in a mediocre London primary.

The two school systems are very different, formal education doesn't begin until 3P in CH (year 2 in UK). In international school they may not learn German / Swiss German, i know kids in the international schools in CH who can barely string a sentence together in Swiss German and they have lived there for 8+ years.

[pinkbutterflys]

Thanks so much for your reply. Your post does make me think my expectations should not be too high!
My dd is in reception and can already read and knows phonics inside out as she learnt them at nursery so hopefully that part will be ok but the actual U.K. school system is a bit tricky.
I do know how to prepare her for the private schools entrance exams and have full copies of the national curriculum from teachers friends and what I need to do. I was thinking more I could follow a U.K. online tutor programme for her age at each stage.
The kindergarten was only so she could learn German and I’m if the understanding it’s compulsory. Does this still sound a disaster?
I hope your dc have caught up now. How difficult for you.

[Todayissunny]

If @lLIZS is around I think this is what she did with her kids.
The kids in CH start later but the learning curve after the first class is quite steep. I'm pretty sure PISA results in maths are good. It does also depend on school and teachers though. Kids that have joined my boys class from other schools have either dropped back a year or struggle because the teacher pushes them and they are ahead.
In canton Zürich you would have to send your kids to some kind of school as home schooling is not allowed - other cantons it is allowed.
There are people who offer English classes to English speakers outside of school - have a look and you can find everything.
And if the kids are bright enough they will get the best out of the system and catch up wherever they go.

[Todayissunny]

Be aware also that in canton Zurich they only do Swiss German in kindergarten. No high German. Other cantons do both.

[LIZS]

Hi . We moved when ds was 3 and he went into preschool until grade 1 at International School following pyp IB syllabus. Iirc we paid until he was of obligatory UK school age. However it in no way prepared him for returning to UK private school in y3 but he eventually caught up. Dd was born in CH and we returned in time for her to start Reception. Ironically it is dd who has the language aptitude despite little exposure to German at the time!

If your dd is already in an independent school in UK will they not allow her back in due course, without further assessment. As long as she keeps up the reading etc she should be fine. Sadly many of the expats I know who tried the Local system, with the best of intentions to settle their children, ended up in the international system. It can be very intolerant of those who are not fluent or struggle to cope and assume SEN. Would you have language skills to support her? The hours can be a nightmare too, early staggered start, lunch break times which vary by day and most afternoons off in Kindergarten. I'm not convinced a short term expat child would benefit tbh. I did know of an ex- teacher who homeschooled for a bit, in Zurich canton. I would also advise you not to be too open about a short term contract as you may find it harder to be accepted.

[LIZS]

And check out the yahoo group expatmomsinswitzerland as there are plenty who have relevant up to date experience of the various schools available and can advise.

[Todayissunny]

It's true that kids are home some afternoons and lunchtimes but canton Zurich is now obliged by law to offer lunchtime and after school childcare for every child - at a cost to parents. And they have made improvements on standard start and finishing time. System is still almost impossible for (both) parent(s ) working full-time.
Language support for kids with German as a second language also depends on school and canton. I think as an English speaking ex-pat when you were here you were quite exotic LIZS - there are so many now that (some)schools have had to adapt.

[LIZS]

Lol, I don't remember feeling exotic! There were plenty of expats around at the time, although the international schools did seem to expand shortly after we left and I believe English is now the second language taught in ZH schools.

[Todayissunny]

LIZS -yes, trust me, exotic compared to now lol.
In canton Zurich they start english in 2nd class. Here in Aargau 3rd. The quality of what is being taught in primary school is questionable though.

[pinkbutterflys]

Thanks all for the great replies. I didn’t realise they didn’t learn high German. That’s annoying tbh as I thought worst case dd will learn German. All this canton business is so confusing. We could move somewhere else and commute but I don’t want to end up in the Swiss hills somewhere rocking in a chair until dd gets back from kindergarten!

It’s a shame the international schools aren’t great as dh said he mentioned it and the company said that’s fine. I only wanted dd to go to kindergarten so she could learn high German and be part time so I had time to teach her myself in the day/

I understand and can read German but not speak it (well I can but pretty badly for 7 years studying it!)
I won’t be working, it’s my dh who I’m trailing and I have only entertained the idea on the understanding we return when dd is entering year 3 despite my dh able to stay there longer.
I don’t want to move there but I also don’t want him doing a weekend commute to London each week even though that would be covered by his company.

Dd current school is full and has waiting lists. I doubt we would be offered a place on our return.

[LIZS]

If the company will pay go for IS or perhaps one of the bilingual schools. Pyp is a different way of working and thinking, but as she is already reading it won't be harmful. Living outside Zurich would be a dialect Swiss German but IS opens up an English speaking community of diverse cultures. We have fond memories of celebrating all sorts of festivals and sharing British customs.

[Todayissunny]

Is he actually going to be working in Zurich?
There are lots if great things about living here.
I think some of the intentional schools are excellent - you need to have a good loOK at them though. There are also private Swiss (geman speaking) schools if you really want her to benefit from the opportunity to learn German.

[Todayissunny]

Just to clarify - it is only kindrgaten (in canton Zurich) which is only in Swiss German (which is only a spoken dialect). As soon as she goes into first class they start reading,writing and all lessons in high German. In canton Aargau they have high German in kindergarten. Not sure about other places.

[pinkbutterflys]

Thanks. Not massively fussed about her learning German tbh but thought it a good thing overall regardless of what she does/doesn’t learn otherwise.
Yes working in Zurich and we wouldn’t have to pay rent. We could rent there or wherever he asks for within reason.
I’m not keen on international schools as have had to research other countries he’s been offered jobs in and they seem flaky most of the time. Last country I researched seemed to be that parents were sending their kids to either learn English or to cope without the native language. Not much actual education going on.
Maybe I’ll go and visit some when dh next there.

[ApricotExpat]

Hi,
It's so dependant on the canton and the gemeinde too. You could consider Zurich, Zug or Aargau.
Our children have thrived in the Swiss system. Our gemeinde rules are Swiss German in the playground and Hoch Deutsch in the classroom. English from 2 Klasse and French from 5 Klasse. Yes, they start school at a later age but it's a swift learning curve thereafter. The kids here would be the same, if not more advanced than the same grades in the UK / IB PYP. But, I don't know about in canton Zurich...
There's an educational consultant you could speak too (she's on FB) - she's worked in ISZL and the local system and advises expats on pros / cons etc.
Good luck with the move. Enjoy!

[beresh]

We had to make this choice 9 years ago, also with a 5 year old in London and for us Zurich and local school has worked out well.

We planned to move back after 3 years so I really tried to keep up with the uk curriculum, doing 30 min maths after lunch on weekdays, reading every evening and paying for a Wednesday afternoon group English class with homework. We ended up staying here, so it's a bit hard to know how successful my efforts were, but certainly reading/writing seemed to be on a par with old English school friends for the first couple of years. After that time I just encouraged reading and trusted that they'd catch up in their teens, which seems to have happened.

I loved having young children in Zurich, it's nice to have the extra afternoons to go out and explore or have playdates. Whilst kindergarten isn't academic they do learn a lot.

From my English friends with children in local schools, the vast majority have integrated successfully and most are doing well. All of them have at least one parent who managed to learn German to a good level relatively quickly, it really helps.

Think about yourself too though - SAHM in a foreign country isn't for everyone and my career would be in a better place if I'd stayed in London, even though I did find work here eventually.

[pinkbutterflys]

Thanks @beresh nice to hear it worked out for some as well. If I’m honest I really can’t see myself staying out there long term. I absolutely love London. I’m a sahm now anyway so not too worried, i love going out on my own, in the U.K.

I make friends very easily. I’m not sure if I would so easily in Switzerland though given what I’ve read.
I imagine an international school would introduce me to more English speakers. I would always try to integrate into a local area but from what I’ve read the Swiss seem to not be interested in ‘foreigners’ anyway.