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Moving to Brussels mid August with family of five, ( 3 kids under 6).

21 replies

kidboss · 18/06/2012 18:56

Hello mumsnetters,

We are excited to be moving to Brussels mid August! I?d like to pick your brains on how to best set up education and living for my family: hubbie and three kids aged 6, 3, and 1.

I have played out all scenarios between the many options available in Brussels and think the best set up for our needs would be a private bilingual education fr/eng for our 6 yr old. And local French school for 3 yr old (1 year old will follow at 2.5 but in the meantime enter a local crèche).

  1. Do you think we will get a place so late in the year for a good local French school starting Sept 2012 for my 3 yr old?

  2. What experiences have you had with bilingual French/English schools, BICS, ACACIA, French Lycee (we?d love to go to BSB but Teverun is just too far, we like the buzz of the city, shops, restaurants, city parks etc).

  3. The 2 younger kids will join our 6 yr old later when aged 6 in a private bilingual system so they can take advantage of immersive French for now.

  4. My husband will drive to work (Anderlecht), we are thinking about living near BICS/ACACIA, (French Lycee ? if we get a spot) What's a nice area to be based? We need a 4-5 bed house will garden, possible? Cost?

  5. We would love the kids to be fluent in French within the 1-2 yrs learnt in a fun relaxing environment.

    Any experiences or opinions welcome!

    Lots of questions, sorry to bombard you, but I have read a lot of the threads here, and still have questions. These threads are priceless in terms of gleaning 1st hand experiences! Thanks for taking the time!
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Portofino · 18/06/2012 19:09

Natation will be along shortly for all the school advice. You won't get to pick from a big list of schools at this point though! How long will you be staying? If only a couple of years, I would agree with the bilingual option. If longer, I would consider putting your older child in a French speaking school. They need full immersion to develop their language skills - and this will increase their ability to make local friends/take part in activities etc. Do you have a creche place lined up?

www.immoweb.be is the place to check out rental prices. Most expats tend to live in the communes to the East of Brussels - the Woluwes, Etterbeek, Kraainem, Wezembeek etc. All are perfectly nice. For a commute to Anderlecht you might consider Ixelles, (expensive) Forest or Laeken.

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natation · 18/06/2012 19:22

First question why a bilingual education? I don't want to diss publically some schools and there are certain bilingual schools which due to their percentages in English and intake are simply not suitable, but it would leave for me lycee francais and BSB as the only high quality options and the latter I would say really is of high quality but equally you have to lower your expectation of bilingualism though. For lycee francais, I would say absolutely live very close, as they have funny school hours, poor before and after school "garderie", poor public transport connections, different terms dates to other international and Belgian schools. But for lycee francais, they have long waiting lists, it might be a complete non starter, they did their enrollments months ago, priority to French and those already in French state subsidised education. Expect to be told your child is number 150 on the waiting list, if you get a last minute place, you have hit jackpot at the lycee francais. They are expanding the maternelle there, not sure of impact on the primaire.

Secondly, drive to work, is that wise? Public transport might be a far wiser and quicker option. Most locally employed get highly subsidised or free public transport.

Fluent in French will come much quicker if you choose a monolingual school, a bilingual environment may not be a good choice and may never result in bilingualism in a Brussels "bilingual" school. French at school, English at home, add on private English tuition if you want, will be cheaper than a bilingual school. This situation is only relevant to Brussels, in other places like Paris, a bilingual school can be an excellent option.

You are leaving it exceptionally late to look for a local school now. There are over 300 maternelles / primaires in Brussels, I wouldn't like to advise you where to start looking without knowing the exact work address and what you are looking for in a house - adjusted to Belgian standards, forget completely what you are used too.

A 5 bed house is likely to set you back 2000 euro a month in a decent area. A 4 bed house is going to be far more common and many will have a "bureau" which can be used as a bedroom. Again this is where what you are used to needs to be reconciled with reality.

Anderlecht is not the most desirable area to live by Brussels standards, you might find it quicker to commute by metro from Auderghem for example than by car / bus / tram from Uccle which is geographically much closer.

Sorry this must sound all condescending, I'm trying not to be honestly, send your email by pm and I can help more.

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Portofino · 18/06/2012 19:25

For a 4 - 5 bed house, you are looking at a bare minimum of 1500 euros per month in a "nice area". I would say expect an average of at least 1800 and upwards. There are lots of us here though, so PM me if you would like to be added to the mailing list/private FB group.

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natation · 18/06/2012 19:37

The only caution I would add about the lycee francais is that it's a great option for those moving on to other countries and wishing to continue with a French French education, you would ideally have to embrace the French French system of education to benefit fully from this school. If you are choosing the lycee francais simply because it offers French and English too and you have no fixed plans to move on to another country with a lycee francais or to France itself, well then I would think about the consequences of having children in 2 different schools, 2 different school systems, 2 different term dates. I don't know anyone personally with children there but on reputation it is indeed a great school, but quite different to the Belgian school system, although the 2 systems are more similar than say the British and Belgian system, not just down to language either. I know lots of people who have failed to gain places at the lycee francais, so I am assuming getting a place there really can be a challenge in itself.

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Bonsoir · 19/06/2012 08:24

I live in Paris, not Brussels, but FWIW my feeling is that it would be unnecessarily complicated for a non-French family with no ties to France and the French education system to enrol their DCs in the French lycée in Brussels. If you want your DC to learn French, use the Belgian school system which will enable your DCs (and you) to integrate into the life of the country you are living in.

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natation · 19/06/2012 10:12

If school fees is not an issue and you cannot get a place at the lycee francais, I'd seriously consider BSB. There is a tram which goes from Montgomery near the city centre down to the school, that's sort of the area BICS and Acacia are located in. The bilingual program is 50/50 in both languages and all subjects in primary, no split according to subject. I think the bilingual classes are kept a smaller size (don't quote me on that), all children must have a parent with a sufficient level of French to be able to support French at home too, must be fluent already in French and / or English and have at least basic knowledge on entry of the other language so complete beginners. The language of the playground and extra-curriculars is nearly all English, so you it will indeed take longer to achieve a high level of French to be considered fluent, but if moving on to another English speaking country or school in a few years, this is a good option. Tervuren is really not as far as you think, certainly easier to travel to than the lycee francais from the city centre. The city / east side is connected to Anderlecht by metro in less than 30 minutes from some areas. But by car to Anderlecht, absolutely NOOOO.

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kidboss · 19/06/2012 12:42

Wow, thanks for taking the time to reply everyone. I will pm those of you who have offered.
Just to answer some questions though, no idea how long we'll stay, but minimum 3 yrs, possibly 6 or more.

I was hoping to decide on the school for the oldest child before applying for creche, so no creche yet. ( Would it be possible to find a fee paying creche/nursery french only for 1-6 yr olds, that way I have only 1 drop off for the aged 1+3?). I am a bit worried about how disruptive putting my 6 yr in a French school would be. My son is a bit shy, but relatively bright. I figure bilingual would be a gentler entrance in to the new language. Also as our plans are an English education abroad (we have moved a lot), either igcse/Alevels/IB/ a bilingual programme seems to make sense (long way off I know). Also, we as parents want to be able to support homework and our French is not good enough.
We will most likely continue French in any case as an extra curriculum activity regardless of how long we stay.

What about French tuition instead of English, if going to a bilingual school? Also, I (selfishly) figure it will be easier to meet friends if in a bilingual school rather than a French only school-for mum:-) And all afterschool activities in French? Re: bsb, does one parent have to have fluency in French to join the bilingual program?

Tuition is covered by the employer so not a worry-dare I ask if there are private French only, schools that have small class sizes?
Would it be crazy for school to be in Teverun and dad work in Anderlecht-30km?! In case we need an urgent pick up or something. Deciding where to live is a big headache, my husband does not want to travel more than 20 mins car/public transport. Is Elsene a good place? Is near the big park and good transport links.

I see no comments on the other 2 bilingual schools;) Shall investigate further. But yes I understand that it will take more than 2 yrs to get to fluency if not in a French only school. But that is ok since I don't want to knock my son's confidence too much, and reasonable French is better than none. Thanks again for any comments shared.

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Portofino · 19/06/2012 13:05

I am not the expert on schools but there aren't really any "private" schools in Belgium (in the sense you find them in the UK). Also, due to the Maternelle system (free) the creches only take children up to 3 yo. BSB takes them from 1yo though - so if you/your employer can afford it you could place them all together.

I would still go for the local school option personally. There are plently of MNetters who have put similar aged children in local schools and they are all coping well.

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kidboss · 19/06/2012 13:46

Employer pays from age 3, so we'd have to cover creche for 1 yr old and bsb is quite pricey I see. We will consider local option for 6 yr old too, once on the ground it will be easier, I think we should not rule it out at least for 2-3 yr period.
Your comments are reassuring about kids who have entered local schools. I supposed it depends how well the school handles an English speaking child. Thanks again Portofino.

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natation · 19/06/2012 17:34

Is the creche for full time care or just part time or occasional care (you don't mention you working too)? If it's full time, then it's highly likely you won't manage to find a "Belgian priced" creche (that's 450-600 euro per month) and you'll be left with "expat priced creche", of which 2 chains operate in Brussels, both in the eastern and central areas of Brussels, not in Uccle, though maybe there is something in Uccle I don't know about. If it is part-time or occasional, there are still cheap alternatives as little as 20 euro per day, several options on the east side of Brussels again. There are several expat priced creches near to local schools which high number of international children in them, it's not really going to be that problematic dropping off at creche and then school, nearly all Belgian resident families do the same who have children age 0-3 and 3+.

There are a few creches next to schools, often run by the same charitie which govern the schools, they are "Belgian priced" ones and you would have ideally had to reserve a place at 6 weeks pregnant.

Many local schools have high percentages of international children in them, some up to 40%, depends on the school whether you'll make friends with the parents. In Anderlecht, unless you fit into a specific ethnic group, it is highly unlikely you'd be mixing socially with many of the parents there, whereas if you choose the right area, you might indeed get a good group of friends from contacts at local schools. Many if not the majority of children at the lycee francais arrive by school bus, so I'm not sure how sociable the parent circles are there. At BSB the parents are incredibly sociable, lots and lots of activities for them, for the children after school including activities which non pupils at the school can attend in English, especially handy if your child is at a local French or Flemish school and they only get to speak English at home.

Without knowing the exact address in Anderlecht, I couldn't comment on how viable working there and having children at school in Tervuren, or Uccle or WSP is. My husband works on the Anderlecht border and takes 30 minutes to get to work, we live in WSP. We used to have a child at BSB.

There is only one private French school I know of at primaire level in Belgium, it is about 50km from the centre of Brussels, called Schola Nova - curriculum heavily weighted with Greek and Latin, yes even for 7 year olds.

Ixelles could be quite problematic to live and work in Anderlecht, again it depends on where in Anderlecht and where in Ixelles as they are both big communes. Ixelles is one of the most expensive places to live, more expensive than WSP even, parking is a problem, local schools well you can just about forget it, next year maybe.

if your husband doesn't want more than a 20 minute commute, well then you'll have to accept living in an area without any expat population (well you'll have to look incredibly hard for one) and also many places within 20 minutes of Anderlecht are not areas where I'd live by choice. Berchem-Ste-Agathe is quite nice, if it's the north of Anderlecht, or Sint-Pieters-Leeuw (Dutch speaking). But you're a long way from any bilingual schooling options, the local schools will possibly have not a single English speaking child in them.

I have a child in local secondary, I'm hoping in the next 2 years for him to take IGCSEs in French, Dutch, English and Maths, as an external candidate of BSB. We don't get international school fees paid for (any more) so this is the nearest we'll get to a British education for our other children. If our children went back into the British system now, I'd expect them to be ahead of their peers, especially the 13 year old. Their biggest adjustment would be English spelling with the youngest ones, definitely where they lack the most.

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rushingrachel · 19/06/2012 17:55

Hi. I have been here 6 years and have 2 kids who are 3 and 1. My 3 year old is in British school after much deliberation and having got a local school place. A wise person told me to look at my child, look at the schools and putting all notions of expense and bilingualism aside, decide where we thought all things being equal he'd be happiest. I offer that advice on! You have to go look for yourself. Belgium has terrific education - if you go local or international.

Just a couple of thoughts on what Natation said.

I would put my son into the bilingual programme at BSB like a shot. I think it looks fab and my little one is a very enthusiastic French speaker. However I'm not enthusiastic trying to get to Tervuren for 830!

I do not mind giving a view on your other 2. Speaking as a practising Catholic with a Catholic husband and children, I can tell you I would personally not have touched BICS. Look at the pictures on the website, particularly some of the Pre V2 rites. Hmmmm. Acacia is an Opus Dei school. If you're happy with that then go look. I've known people be happy with it (and equally with BICS) but I asked my priest about it and was guided by him so didn't go look. I don't know what the education is like. They're religious schools so I looked at that first. I would far sooner have had DS in Belgian school.

Other than that Natation knows everything about schools and is a mine of information about it. And she knows about houses and moving in infinite detail!

Hope it all goes well.

Ps Porto I'm in love with watching ITV already. It's too exciting. Thanks for the tip.

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kidboss · 19/06/2012 20:02

rushingrachel-thanks for your insightful comments. Is your little one in british school or bsb? what's the difference? My big concern about bsb is the commute, exactly as you said, in fact it was my first choice school until i saw on google maps the distance to the city. Just want to get a good bilingual education in the city- too much to ask for? ha ha... perhaps we just want it all these days! Yes Natation has been super helpful and my fears, concerns and doubts are a little less murky now. Cheers.

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kidboss · 19/06/2012 20:31

Natation- I have Pm'd you. Bsb for first year and local french for following yrs sounds interesting even though employer covers fees, our priority is picking up French then moving back to a bilingual school such as bsb for the british education system. You have given me food for thought, thank you.

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rushingrachel · 19/06/2012 20:46

Hi, I absolutely agonised and agonised over schooling. Like really lost sleep. What guided me in the end was that my DS is quite shy and retiring and I felt he personally would be more forthcoming in a smaller class. It would have broken my heart if I had had to face tears and sadness in the mornings. We liked BJAB and found the head very inspiring, and we can get there without killing ourselves. And our DS is delighted to get there every morning. It's a sadness to us they don't have a bilingual programme although they do French every day. My DS had a francophone nanny, does activities in French and is enthusiastic to speak French but he's not fluent. Then again he's 3! We did reconsider BSB for September but we live in town and DH drops DS on his way to work. Tervuren would be a massive nuisance. PM me if I can be of further help.

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natation · 19/06/2012 21:00

If BSB, I'd stick with it, but just don't expect a bilingual child after a year, or even 2 years, it is not realistic when the environment is only 50% French and the rest of the children in the school speak English and it's a very enclosed community, I don't think that many kids socialise with local kids from there. You'd have to really fill the time with French if you want a bilingual child from a 50/50 environment in class but 99% English environment in the playground. In a monolingual French school, it's French or sink, most children take about a year to be bilingual, but it depends on age, it took my youngest 2 a year, I do know a few children who haven't quite done it as fast in a Belgian French school, as their time outside school and in holidays is spent in English or back in the UK, that does inhibit fluency. There's nothing stopping you having the younger 2 in a French school until they reach the age where they can move to BSB or another "bilingual" school, by which time they will already be bilingual and can profit more from the formal learning in both languages.

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Portofino · 19/06/2012 21:02

I hate to say it, but you might have to make a choice between french language vs british education! This late in the day, you might have to put up with what you can find for the first year, and change later. There is enormous pressure on Brussels schools at the mo. I am guessing you are not looking at the Dutch system? I regret very much that we ruled it out. There are many advantages.

Rachel - yes it is lovely to have ITV - glad you got it working. Shame there is only football on Wink

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natation · 19/06/2012 21:11

Yehhh football, except my team France is losing!!!!

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kidboss · 19/06/2012 21:31

And England are winning so far! Thanks peeps.May do bsb for first yr as we are so late applying nothing local will be available. Then local French next yr, am leaning this way! 2 more mins in the game!

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natation · 19/06/2012 21:42

Another last thing to ponder on. BSB follow the English national curriculum, although they are not obliged to so they don't have to follow it 100%. Their bilingual programme is taught according to this curriculum, whether the language is English or French. A child entering with only French is likely to become fluent in English quite quickly, due to the greater English environment, not quite the same result with those who enter with only English.

From what I hear, BICS and Acacia follow loosely the Belgian French curriculum and also the sort of customs such as collation, sieste, journal de classe, bulletins, contrats.

The lycee francais follows the French national curriculum, like BSB the English and French parts follow the French curriculum. The language of the playground there is going to be French, so an English only child should become fluent in English quickly, whereas a French only speaking child will learn English much slower. It's the reverse of BSB. I don't know the exact make-up of lycee francais families, but I imagine English speaking families are going to be very much a minority there and I would wonder if you don't speak French at home how you would mix socially around school life. You might find social life around a local Belgian school to be more welcoming of other languages / nationalities.

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onthemoove · 12/01/2019 18:00

Hello,

We are a french family who has been living abroad from the past 20 years. We are going to be moving to Brussels this summer. This will be the sixth country in 13 years for our kids. We are thinking of enrolling our kids into a French School (Lycée Monet Brussels) even if they speak french, english, Italian and German, only because in few years we might end up going back to France. We'd like to have your feedback about this school. (3rd year secondary for my son and 1st year secondary for my daughter) Then for accommodation, I would love for my kids to be able to go by public transportation on their own to school, within maximum 20 minutes. Which areas should I be looking at ? My husband needs to be within 30/40 minutes to Zaventem, and for myself I am actually seeking for a new job in Brussels so I don't know where I am going to end up. Thank you so much for your help.

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lifeisunjust · 12/01/2019 19:56

Lycee Francais to Zaventem is a bit incompatible.

You are much better looking at WSP, WSL area as firmly French and also very near Zaventem. Very international, more international than Lycee Francais.

Given French is the majority language in Brussels, why would you not consider a local secondaire? It really would not be difficult to move back to the French system, unless arriving back into the French system in the middle of BAC.

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