Need advice please: Choice between Waterloo/St John's School and Watermael/ISB in Brussels, Belgium

[Ulrike1971]

We have to move to Brussels on very short-term notice and most likely will have to choose a school for our two older children without having the time to visit ... it is a bit daunting and stressful and we would really appreciate your advice! For our 6 and 3 year old, we are hesitating between St John's International School, which would then imply living in Waterloo or nearby - or the International School Brussels, which would mean moving to Watermael-Boitsfort or nearby. Does anyone have any advice on those schools and/or residential areas? We also have a baby and the 3 year old is too young to use the school bus system, which is why we do not want to live too far from school - and we all speak French, thus do not want to move to a Dutch speaking area. My husband will have to commute to Vilwoerde though. Thanks so much for any advice or experiences you could share!

[natation]

Hi there
are you constrained by a company paying school fees for only these 3 schools? The reason I ask is that there are plenty of more schools in English in Brussels / Waterloo than these 3. Off the top of my head there is : BISB, BJAB, BEPS, WIS, BICS, Acacia, St Paul's, European Montessori, International Montessori Woluwe, AC Montessori Kids, all of which all go up to at least 11, other schools only go up to 6, so that is 10 other schools you could choose from.

BSB : in Dutch area and commuting to Vilvoorde means either sitting in a traffic jam on the ring or using the non ring route which will still be busy, French areas not far but not walking distance

ISB : in French area, even further to commute to Vilvoorde

St John's : a really long commute to Vilvoorde by Belgian standards

BISB, BJAB and International Montessori Woluwe are the best situated schools for Vilvoorde, the former 2 are schools right in the city, the Montessori is in a suburb officially Dutch but in reality about 50/50 French/Dutch.

I would enquire about whether you could get a full-time place for the 3 year old at any of the 3 "big" schools, you may be too late. For the baby, only BSB has provision for 1 to 3 year olds, but places in that age group are very very popular.

Would your husband's commute to Vilvoorde be possible by train or bus? Or by bike even? I would take public transport links into consideration. If you want to live in a French area and work in a Dutch one, you often find the French / Dutch politics means that connections are not always the best!!! I live in French majority east Brussels, but the commute by public transport to Dutch Vilvoorde is not easy.

Finally is English an essential part of education? The local schools are often great.

[natation]

Whoops, sorry BSB is not in your list even!

[Ulrike1971]

Hi natation,
thanks so much for the detailed advice, that is so helpful! No, we are not constrained to any particular school, but for simplicity started looking at the two biggest schools only. You are right, we should look into the other schools also - we do need to keep the English as we will be sent around a little more ... How bad is the traffic on the ring in the morning? Do you have any "guestimate" as to how long it might take to go from Boitsfort or Waterloo to Vilwoorde? Thanks so much! ULrike

[natation]

Waterloo, a minimum of 30 minutes if traffic is completely clear, during rush hour, expect 60-90 minutes, for Watermael-Boitsfort, 10 minutes less, depends on where you live exactly though, commutes could be longer if you live further from the ring junctions in both these communes.

BISB and BJAB are far more convenient for Vilvoorde, you can even get the train from stations near these schools to Vilvoorde. Both these schools are situated in busy city areas, Watermael is suburban Brussels, St John's is separate Waterloo, most people in Waterloo would stay in the area, not going into Brussels. WSL, WSP, Etterbeek, Schaerbeek, Auderghem, Brussels 1000 communes are all good areas to live in for both BISB and BJAB, either walk to school or bus/tram/metro. Along the inner ring (petite ceinture) would be where I would be looking in particular, if wanting to combine a short commute, short journey to school. I'd still expect a commute by car from this area to Vilvoorde to be 15 minutes in clear traffic, 30-45 minutes in rush hour, you could do it by train in less time perhaps, but the difference would be because you would not be going via the ring. The ring bottleneck is around Zaventem, the airport area, it's the worst bottleneck in the region, to be avoided if possible.

[MrsSchadenfreude]

If we went back to Brux I would choose St John's over ISB any time.

Commuting to Vilvoorde no biggy (we used to do Tervuren to Evere). Is there not a school bus? Why does the 3 year old have to go to school? I would stick them into local school at that age and have done with it. Frankly.

[Ulrike1971]

Hi natation, thanks so much! I can see that BJAB and BISB are much closer ... but also in aresa where I guess finding a house, even an attached one, with a garden is probably very, very expensive, or not? Do you happen to know in which communes/residential areas accessible to these schools we might be able to find a bit more space and green?
Mrs Schadenfreude, what did you like more about St John's? Our 3, soon 4 year old loves to go to school even now ... and we cannot pull the children out of the English-speaking system as we will be sent into a different country again in 3 years, otherwise I would agree with you!

[natation]

It would be no harder finding a house in an area near BJAB/BISB than it would in Watermael-Boitsfort and depending on exactly where you are looking, prices will be pretty similar. You will find Waterloo cheaper however. In fact for BJAB, BISB or ISB, parts of Auderghem will be very reasonable compared to more expensive Woluwe St Lambert (WSL) and Woluwe St Pierre (WSP) and this area is convenient for all 3 of these schools, especially BJAB if you can find a house near metro line 5 which would take you direct to near the school. WSL, Etterbeek, Schaerbeek tend to have large attached townhouses on 3 or 4 floors with walled gardens. In WSP or Auderghem, there is more choice of detached houses with larger gardens. For a 4 bed property, you can pay anywhere between ?1200 and 3000+, depends on quality and desirability of the area. BJAB, BISB and ISB are all very well connected by public transport. BEPS in Ixelles is a bit less well connected and to live near that school can be a bit more expensive as a general rule, it's a bit too close to Ave Louise and it's XXXXX prices.

Here's a random 4 bed house in Auderghem, think it is near Petillon/Boileau metro/tram stops, would be 10 minutes to BJAB, 15 mins to BISB, 25 mins to ISB.
[http://www.immoweb.be/fr/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3072732&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1]]

Tervuren to Evere commute you can avoid the ring and have a few choices of routes, Waterloo to Vilvoorde, well that's up to you, it's twice the distance, it is very hard to avoid the ring, I used to have to go past Zaventem on the ring to get to work, if you do it before 7.30am, generally not too bad, do it after 8am and you risk 1 or 2 hours in a traffic jam. I cross the ring on my bike going to and from work every day now near to Zaventem, always slow moving traffic. It's only really on this part of the ring where the traffic is consistently very bad.

I have no personal experience of any of these international schools, hearsay is that St John's is better academically at secondary level. I have friends with children at ISB though who are perfectly happy with the school whose children will soon enter secondary. Personally, it would be a decision for me of location, for me I love being near the city but not right there, with great local facilities, for me Waterloo is very quiet in comparison to Brussels, it is very self-contained, no need to come to Brussels unless going to the theatre or some specific reason.

[natation]

www.immoweb.be/fr/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=3068854&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1
Another random house in Woluwe St Lambert, this one is next to International Montessori in Woluwe which is English/French, it's almost in the countryside (Belgian standards) but also not far from shopping. There is also a direct bus to BISB from this area, probably about 20 minutes.

Immoweb is great for looking at houses, always worth doing your own research, even if you use a relocation agent which I would NOT recomnend, in Brussels they have a general reputation for showing the most expensive and inappropriate houses! I'd learn the post codes as quick as possible of each commune, it makes searching on Immoweb much easier. Good luck.

[natation]

www.immoweb.be/fr/Rent.Estate.cfm?IdBien=2910811&xgallery=gallery&xpage=1
House in Watermael-Boitsfort, walking distance to ISB, but also very convenient for tram 94 to get into Brussels city centre, not too far from swimming pool, shops. You can also get a train from nearby Boondaal station direct to Vilvoorde, takes 25 inutes.

[Ulrike1971]

Natation, you are just so amazingly helpful and spending so much time on giving us advice, I cannot believe it. We might be able to squeeze in a "go-see" trip in May and then will hopefull see everything - for now, we feel so much better! Thanks infinitely - is there anything we could send or bring you from the US? Ulrike

[MrsSchadenfreude]

My two are a lot older than yours and I would go for St John's because it has a better academic record. The infant school at BSB is lovely, but it does, I think, go a bit pear shaped after that.

Ulrike, we move every 3-4 years too, and I am beginning to get fed up with it! Education gets more difficult the higher up they get as well.

[Superspudable]

I live on the edge of W-B (technically in Auderghem) and would recommend it from a practical point of view - easy to get to the Ring (orbital Brussels motorway), into the city via the 94 tram, shopping, and on the train too if that can work for your OH. The area around Place Keym is particularly well connected by bus/train (and has some shops / cafes) but slightly less so for the tram.

My kids (3 and 4) are in a local school so can't really comment on the private options but know of some older siblings of their school friends at ISB who seem happy enough. The location of St John's seems a bit contradictory to the commute to Vilvoorde and BSB contradicts living in a francophone area...

[natation]

If you are staying for only 3 years, the eldest is only going to be 9 years old when you leave, so academic record for me would not be the most important consideration. It's just me, I like work, school and home to be as close as possible to be able to have as much family time together.

I assume your children are all French speakers? It's just that the after-school activities in English at international schools, even the indirectly linked ones like "Little Gym" can be far more expensive than simlar activities at local schools and in the local area catering to locals. It means your children could take great advantage of the local activities in French at less of a financial burden. The choice in Belgium for children's activities is enormous. There is no school on wednesday afternoons in the local system though, whereas most international schools ARE open on wednesday afternoons, local sporting / music / art activities happen at this time.

One last thing, local school starts at 2 1/2 here, most go full-time from that point. Since only ISB, BSB and International Montessori cater for 2 year olds in the international sector, it might be worth looking at a local school at least for the baby for the first year, if you are interested, I suppose it depends on who is paying or your budget. Local schools are divided on year of birth. Enrolments for 2009 births started last September for Sept 2011-June 2012 start, enrolments for 2010 births start this September. It can be much harder to get a place at a desirable local school than an international one.

[Ulrike1971]

Thanks so much for all the advice! It is still a hard choice ... right now we are thinking of going for Waterloo because the houses with real gardens are so much more affordable. We have lived in a very small town in New Jersey for 3 years now, where our children got used to roaming around the garden or biking in the little streets, seeing deer in the backyard and hearing birds rather than cars ... I agree wholeheartedly, moving with children is a complete nightmare (before I did not mind so much) - as is finding good schools without being able to really see them or think it all through. I really look forward to coming to Brussels, I have lived and worked there before - but I just wish international corporations would plan better so that families are not thrown into such chaos and rash decisions!!! I hope to meet some of you we we are there to share some of the GOOD things about life in Brussels ;-)!

[Bonsoir]

My sister's children are at the International School of Amsterdam and she is just about to move them to the European School in Bergen. She tells me that Dutch children from rich families who are failing in the national state school system move to ISA in secondary school and that the school becomes increasingly less international/academic and more of a school for disruptive/non-academic locals. Her opinion is that ISA is fine for primary but rapidly declines thereafter.

I tell you this because, on the grapevine, I have heard things that lead me to believe that the same may be true of ISB. I also know this to be true of EaB in Paris, where my DD goes to school.

[natation]

With a choice of 14 schools in the Brussels/Tervuren/Waterloo area offering an education in English for under 12s, I think it would be best to concentrate on what those schools offer at the level at which you children would be at, ie curriculum between 3 and 9 years old. Only 7 of the schools go beyond 12 years old anyway, 7 are for under 12s only.

At the schools which use a modified English national curriuculum, they probably sit the UK SATS tests for 11 year olds, it's a very crude way of comparing pupils at that age. No idea what sort of testing goes on at the schools which use the IB PYP program. But remember, in this part of the world, a significant proportion of the children at the English medium schools speak English as a second language, at a rough guess between 25% and 60% in these schools, plus many of these pupils arrive with no English in the upper years of the schools, this does have a significant effect on measuring academic performance.

[Cuisine]

There's a train from waterloo to vilvorde - you can check on the sncb website. Also waterloo has everything without the battle through dust & dirt that going into bxl involves. One thing though - waterloo is gridlock in the morning. I wouldn't think about driving to vilvorde - total back to back cars. Waterloo centre is also blocked with the St. Johns road being one of the worst as it connects to the motorway & waterloo's main street. If your kids go this school you should be in walking distance or use the school buses. The american women's club of brussels could be interesting for you. It's on the border of waterloo in Rhode St.Genese & has a lovely clubhouse. I'd contact them & ask for their help in schools & houses in the area.

[scaryteacher]

BSB is ostensibly in a Flemish area, but most will speak French or English to you - if they didn't speak English in Tervuren many of the businesses would fold! I've coped living here over the last almost 5 years with not a lot of Flemish.

BSB are starting a bilingual programme this September from infants up, so there will be bilingual teaching in English/French and English/Flemish as they need to attract locals in. The BSB fees are also cheaper than ISB or St Johns, or so I've heard. Given that BSBs are eye watering, that's saying something.

[natation]

Bit of a plug here for a few other organisations which cater for international families in Belgium .....


Brussels Childbirth Trust has membership around 1200, mainly in the Brussels/Vlaams Brabant/Branbant Wallon regions, 2 club meeting places, one in Ixelles, the other in Wezebembeek-Oppem, plus local and interest groups which meet in members' homes. About 50% speak English as a first language and the other 50% are many different nationalities speaking English as a second language, the common denominator being English. You can join before arriving in Beglium, then you get full access to the website, the monthly magazine, the resources of this organisation.
//www.bctbelgium.com

As already stated, American Woman's Club of Brussels which is in fact not in Brussels but Rhode St Genese. I don't know any members but guessing from the location, I bet most with school age children have them in ISB or St John's, as it is located between the 2 schools.
www.awcb.org/awcb/

British and Commonwealth Club of Brussels, clubhouse situated in Woluwe St Pierre, open also to non Commonwealth nationalities. It is a bit like the American club with interest groups for older women, plus a group for women with young children, plus things like an English library, exercise classes in English. Many members are also members of BCT.
bcwcb.weebly.com/

You will find clubs also for French nationals, Australians, Irish, Polish etc.