Unfairly made redundant do I appeal or go straight to employment tribunal

[Appealredundancyornot]

bit of history.

Worked for this company for 3 years, went over on a TUPE contact which is far superior in terms of money, holiday and sickness entitlement. Sickness is important as I have a disability.

6 months after working there, I was unfairly dismissed for gross misconduct, but I was reinstated on appeal because there was no evidence. I had asked for a data search and I was in receipt of emails basically saying it was a witch-hunt. At this time I had also contacted ACAS and to start early conciliation. So they knew I was serious and taking this further.

The last two years haven’t been great and I have been looking for work elsewhere, but I’ve just gone in and done my job. A couple of times they have tried to start investigations against me, but had to drop it due to lack of evidence. Once I arrived 20 mins late because my car wouldn’t start, even though I called in they started an investigation due to poor timekeeping. It was the first time I was late. Things along those lines.

A month ago, announcements were made, that there will be redundancies. In my department one person had to go. Myself and another colleague were up for redundancy. I knew it would be me because this is the opportunity they needed to get rid of me. The scoring for the criteria was interesting. It wasn’t based of job performance, experience or skills etc. Basically everything that could be proven I scored high, but I was scored low of things that were subjective. He said he marked me low on teamwork because even though I get on with the people in my department, I had distrust in the regional manager and that was not healthy going forward. Now this regional manager is the one that tried to get people to lie about me, in order to dismiss me (and I have evidence of this). I put in a grievance against him, but his boss made the right noises, but nothing was ever done.

People on my team have said that before they announced the redundancy, they were all asked to see my line manager and asked to dish any dirt, although it wasn’t quite put like that.

The other candidate, is 6 months into her position and is still being trained. When we spoke she scored 2 points more than me. So because I don’t trust someone who tried to sack me, I’m scored down.

I’ve had my official redundancy notice and happy to be going.

So, my question is, do I have to appeal the decision with the company or will it go against me at an employment tribunal?

Is there a way that I need to appeal the decision, but state I don’t want my job back. I’ve been told that once I have received my redundancy notice then they can’t take it back without me agreeing.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[triceratops12]

I believe you have to go through all internal processes first before approaching for a tribunal. However if you don't want your job back, presuming you've had a redundancy settlement then what is it that you want as an outcome?

[devildeepbluesea]

Exactly what PP said above. If you want to go to ET you need to exhaust internal procedures. But why would you want your job back?

[FlappyFish]

You need to exhaust all internal procedures to show you’re following all due process.

Best of luck, they should know from how you dealt with it before you won’t go without them being reasonable.

[Mumdiva99]

Do you don't like your job. You want to leave. You've been made redundant presumably with a decent package ( as your continuous service will have carried over) - why do you want to appeal/taken it to tribunal? You don't want to work there? I don't get it..... surely this is win win.....

[Appealredundancyornot]

The redundancy settlement seems like a nice amount, but since I’ve been on this contract I’ve been classified as having a disability. One that shouldn’t stop me getting another job, but I have to disclose it and it probably will. If my disability worsens (highly probable) then I will need surgery and a long recovery time. On my contract that I have now, I would receive full pay for over 6 months. The money would not last long if I was off without pay.

I’m a single mum with a mortgage.

I have a raft of evidence that they have treated me badly. I had legal advice after I was dismissed and my solicitor said I had a very strong case. This company have done it to others in the past (I have read court tribunals online and they follow a very similar pattern.)

I’m not after my job back, just hoping the judge would award me some extra money to help tide me over.

[rookiemere]

You'd need to see a solicitor. But - with no specialist knowledge here - if there were other redundancies being made, and the company can demonstrate that they followed a scoring process, I'd think it would be difficult to demonstrate that the process wasn't correct.

But I'm no solicitor, it may be possible to prove unfair dismissal and get a settlement.

[Mumdiva99]

Sorry to hear of your worsening health. However, you are already actively seeking alternative employment so would staying in the current place really be what you want?

As others have said....you would have to go through internal process first. And the outcome might be that you get your job back. You can't at that point ask to be let go but with more money.....

If you are on 3/6 months notice- you could approach them and ask to be relieved now for redundancy plus less than required notice.....e.g. if you give me a month's worth of money I'll leave today.....then you buy yourself a few weeks of no work you can dedicate to job hunting.

What sore of job are you after? Is it niche? Has it been impacted by covid? What sort of opportunities are there?

[Figgygal]

It doesn’t matter if they’ve treated you unfairly in the past what you need to focus on is whether they failed to follow a fair process with this redundancy. The historical stuff around them threatening disciplinaries and the previous redundancy wouldn’t be relevant you could’ve raised grievances if it was such a breach of contract you could’ve resigned the claim constructive dismissal but you haven’t.

You would usually have a window of up to 5 days to submit an appeal I really would concentrate on constructing a sound argument as to why the redundancy is unfair
You should follow all internal processes prior to ET but the tribunal will consider cases where appeals haven’t taken place in exceptional circumstances so it isn’t mandatory

Were any of the criteria potentially discriminatory due to your disability? How have they ensured that you’ve not suffered a detriment due to your disability?

[Appealredundancyornot]

@figgygal

From what I have read they did not following a fair redundancy process.

They scored me down on not having a relationship with someone who tried to facilitate a witch hunt against me. If that had not happened, then I would have scored higher than the other candidate.

Nothing relating to my disability.

I couldn’t work for them knowing they will try something again in a few months.

My line manager has been in his role for 2 months, he has only seen me once in that time and we’ve had 2 short phone conversations. Lots of wording in the criteria is he thinks....it’s his opinion that...not one thing that could be backed up by any evidence whatsoever. Whereas I have evidence to refute his opinions. When I tried to bring this up in the consultation meeting, he was on on autopilot and kept repeating my scores won’t change. I have him saying this on the notes.

He doesn’t know me nor what I am capable of.

[Appealredundancyornot]

It’s hard to say without giving too much away. But the field I am in, is not niche, but I’ve worked my way up to a decent salary and if I start again somewhere else, I’d be on at least 30% less.

[zzzebra]

I know someone that was in an almost identical situation.

The redundancy review/rating was based on behaviours rather than the ability to do the job. Also had a disability and also replaced with someone that had only been in the job a matter of months (a temp). The had previously tried to be pushed out.

They went to tribunal and lost because the rating criteria was clear, even if it had very little to do with their ability to do the job.

So sorry about this. It's awful but the appeal process is ruthless and hard work. I think you need to consider if it's worth the hassle when I'd say you're likely to loose.

[Appealredundancyornot]

Zzzebra

Was the criteria clear before they made the selection?

I was not told what the criteria was before the process and the first I heard about what the criteria involved was when I told I was not successful.

[donquixotedelamancha]

OP you sound better informed than a lot of the commenters on here. From what you've described I disagree that you are unlikely to win or that the company's prior conduct would be irrelevant but IANAL.

You need proper legal advice specific to the details of your situation. That said I think it's a no-brained to appeal to show you are following their procedures are they are quite aware of the issues.

[pinkandstripey]

Have you spoken to acas about your current circumstances?

I would start internal proceedings, you don't have to see them through if you change your mind, but you cannot start ET proceedings until you've exhausted internal, and you only have 3 months from date of incident (presumably redundancy notice) to lodge your claim.

[zzzebra]

@Appealredundancyornot

Zzzebra

Was the criteria clear before they made the selection?

I was not told what the criteria was before the process and the first I heard about what the criteria involved was when I told I was not successful.

I believe they were told before they were interviewed.

Also similar in terms of having worked their way up over years to have a salary much higher than they'd get anywhere else. The person they were replaced with was at market rate.

[daisychain01]

I’m not after my job back, just hoping the judge would award me some extra money to help tide me over.

Just to be clear, OP this is not how Tribunal works - this is your logic, but it won't be the basis on which an ET judge will operate.

ET is there to ensure employment law is upheld and where the employer has not upheld the law, the Tribunal is there to ensure the employee's financial loss is restored to what it should have been, had the employer not flouted the law.

It would be ill-advised of you to spend a penny piece on taking an action against your employer without being able to convince the judge that they have broken the law, including discrimination against you.

The whole purpose of a redundancy payment is to compensate you for your job lost because the role is being eliminated. If you were to turn up at Tribunal and say you want some extra money to tide you over, they will look at you sideways and ask you what you think the redundancy payment was for - the fact it is tax free is another hint that the government recognises that redundancy = job loss and gives the redundant employee a bit more to tide them over by making it tax free.

I hope you get a new job soon, and can put this behind you, it's very unsettling and stressful, but many many people including me have been made redundant - for me it always led me to a better job each time.

[Appealredundancyornot]

Zzzebra,

Like I said I didn’t see the criteria and we were not even interviewed.
Everyone in my department had a conference call to say they will be some redundancies, then I got a call to say my job is at risk because I didn’t score the highest on the criteria.

[Appealredundancyornot]

Yes I have spoken to ACAS and they have been very helpful. I spoke on Friday and they did say to seek legal advice. With money tight I was hoping someone on here could advise me.

For the last few years working for the company has been awful, watching my back and making notes of every conversation. It’s really affected my mental health.

Part of me also wants to take them to an ET to punish them for what they have done to me, I know I’m emotional. I’ve also had union representation who have said all the way through what they are doing is wrong abs unfair.

[SidneyPlace]

I think you are confusing your emotions with what is legal and need to separate the two.

What do you want the result of this to be. If the company haven't followed legal process the outcome could be that you are reinstated. Follow that through....you would then likely still want to leave, with no redundancy. Is that what you want, your job back?

In a similar situation I was kinder to myself, didn't raise any complaint, found another job and moved on. The reference I needed for the new job was important.

[Randomfatty]

Hi, you'll need to raise an internal grievance first about the unfairness and the specific factors you've mentioned in a factual non-emotional manner. I would suggest you write a grievance letter detailing all you concerns with specific dates / statements and then submit that to the company (if you have no trust with your line manager, you can submit this directly to the HR director).

They should then investigate this, speak to you, and come back to you with a response. Following this process it may open their eyes to the fact they have not been fair / or followed due process and then they may decide to offer you an enhanced package so as to leave so you don't have to go to an employment tribunal (ET). Having managed this process a couple of times, the stress of an ET is very high so where possible you want the company to take you seriously and make you an enhanced offer to leave. I'm happy to help with the structure of your letter if you need any help (so PM me). Once you are in the grievance process and if it looks like they aren't taking you seriously, you'll need to get yourself specialist employment lawyer and who can recommend a barrister if it goes to the an employment judge.

Happy to talk through the process as I have managed it a couple of times both on behalf of an employee and employers, and unfortunately for myself when I was discriminated against due to my sex.

[DianaT1969]

I know you are looking for expert advice, and I can't give that, but I think it is overdue that you move to a job and team which you enjoy and where you feel valued. Money is important, but fighting this is going to take energy and focus that you should be putting into job searches and interviews.
You are mourning the loss of a protective contract, but I think you should look at it as 3 years of decent pay (with periods of absence?) and now you are free to find something as good. Civil Service perhaps?

[Kerberos]

I don't know you, but if you were a friend of mine I'd be suggesting it's time to move on. You aren't happy. We spend so much of our time at work that to be so unhappy for so long will have an impact.

Yes, you want to punish them but this comes at a huge risk to you and your mental health.

I'd see if there's wriggle room on terms to allow you to leave now on extended notice and put your energy into finding your next job.

[notapizzaeater]

You say you've spoken the union - would they not support you in a claim ?

Tbh they might offer you your job back but seen as they've tried to get rid of you before they will just keep trying until it works - I couldn't work like that, it would be no good for my mental health.

[Appealredundancyornot]

Thank you Randomfatty, I may take you up on that offer.

I’ve spoken to my mum who has said she will pay for me to speak to an employment solicitor. So I will call tomorrow. I’ve got until Thursday to put in my appeal.

[Hoppinggreen]

OP as far as I can see there is one properly qualified expert on this thread Daisychain listen to what they say