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Legal matters

Dropped kerb off private road

19 replies

ScissorBow · 17/09/2017 18:00

A house I'm interested in has the potential for off road parking but would need access off a private road.

Potential house and its accompanying garage circled in yellow. Dropped kerb line in yellow.

Owner of red land/house parks his car outside the possible new house in that red extra bit opposite the house.

My local authority says you only need permission from highways if it's an A, B or C road. But I'm presuming I'd need red land/house owner's permission to drop the kerb in front of my potential garage onto my potential driveway? Or would I not? Thanks for any advice.

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GU24Mum · 17/09/2017 18:01

More importantly, if it's a private road, would you have any rights of access over it in the first place?

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ScissorBow · 17/09/2017 18:13

Yes because my garage would be the one circled in yellow so I would have access to that which is right in front of what would be the dropped kerb.

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paq · 18/09/2017 06:27

I would assume that you would need permission from the owner of the private road and also to have a covenant on the house to secure access over the private land. Who's the landowner and can you talk to them?

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Collaborate · 18/09/2017 07:39

You need to set out where the house boundary is. If you would own the land from the yellow line to the house then you can drop the kerb because you'd own it. If you don't own that land but have a right of way over it it depends on the extent of that ROW. If it is just on foot then you can't drop the kerb. If it includes by car then you can.

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ScissorBow · 18/09/2017 13:29

In front of the house is a pavement so I'm assuming I wouldn't own that. There's a small grassed area to the front the current owner parks his 4x4 on but it's not really deep enough for a drive. It's to the side of the house I could make a driveway.

The owner lives in the house/square at 3 o'clock on the diagram. I was interested in understanding where I stand before approaching him. The covenant was something I didn't appreciate. And access by foot versus access by car is something I hadn't thought of. I would have access to the garage by car but not over the footpath. Hmm. This is more complicated than I thought! Road will be private owned and pavement will be local authority owned. But our LA says you can drop a kerb as long as it's not an A,B or C road so I'm assuming they wouldn't have an issue with this as long as the land owner said yes?

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worridmum · 18/09/2017 13:39

The key word if the owner say yes or gives permission local authorities only care if public road so they cannot say go right ahead as the landowner could take you to court and most likely win if you dont get their permission.

Also the landowners would be stupid to agree to it without you signing a legal document that you (household) will now assume 50% of maintaince costs from the now increasef use of it so possibly be prepared to have bills sent when the road needs maintaince

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dazzlingdeborahrose · 18/09/2017 14:06

Sorry. I'm a bit confused. If there's already a garage belonging to your potential house, there must already be access to it. Are you saying that you want to create an additional entry?

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ScissorBow · 18/09/2017 14:19

Yes the yellow circled garage belongs to the yellow circled house. The yellow line would be a dropped kerb (new) in front of the yellow circled house and yellow circled garage to create a new driveway. It's a level road to the garage. The garage is en bloc. The private road only serves the garages.

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ScissorBow · 18/09/2017 14:23

The house also has road access at the bottom of the picture. The blank space at the bottom is the road. For some reason it's not drawn properly! The dotted pavement in front of the potential house carries on straight downwards (hits the bottom of the picture with a 90 degree angle) It wouldn't be impossible to drop the kerb from that pavement/road but as the house is close to the road the actual driveway would be to the side at the top of the picture.

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ScissorBow · 18/09/2017 14:30

Does this make it clearer?

Yellow is house, garage and potential dropped kerb. There's road access directly in front but the house isn't far enough back from the road to be able to park there.

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Sedona123 · 18/09/2017 14:36

If it's a private road then it most likely jointly belongs to all of the houses on that road. They are also responsible for paying for the upkeep and regular resurfacing of that road. Therefore, you would have to seek permission of all of the homeowners on that street, and also contribute to the maintenance costs.

As a PP has mentioned, when you purchase a house on a private road, that also includes the covenants relating to the private road, so I'm not quite sure how you would proceed even if you could get all the homeowners to agree.

Why are you unable/unwilling to use the new house's current driveway and access?

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CotswoldStrife · 18/09/2017 14:40

How do you access the garage currently without the dropdown? Can you drive up to it now round the other side?

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dazzlingdeborahrose · 18/09/2017 17:15

Thanks. That's a bit clearer. I'd say you need to check the covenants but it's unlikely you'll be able to create a driveway. I suspect the red house owns all of the road and the owners of the garage only have the right to travel over the road to access their garage. I also suspect that there will be a no Parking covenant as well as the requirement to make a contribution to the repair and maintenance of the road. Allowing a drive to be constructed outside your garage would obstruct access to the piece of land where the current owner parks their car. The dropped kerb would allow through access for any vehicle to cut through. It may also create issues for the garages next to yours in terms of turning and manoeuvring.
I own the road to my house and three other houses have access over it but only t reach their houses. There is a no Parking covenant attached to the deeds of all the houses and another stating they are required to pay an equal proportion of any repair, maintenance or replacement of the road surface. The road isn't jointly owned. It's conveyed entirely to my property.
The whole garages on a private road seems a very odd setup to me. You should really seek some legal advice and get a thorough investigation into the setup before you proceed.

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ScissorBow · 18/09/2017 17:58

Oh dear that doesn't seem to have made things any clearer.

It is definitely NOT owned by all the houses. The public highway (for want of a better phrase) serves all the houses. Then a private road branches off which has blocks of garages. This is DEFINITELY owned by the house in the red outline in my first land registry plan. All the people who own the separate garages will have access across the land (which I'm calling private road but really is just the garage-access road) to put their car in the garage but the land isn't wide enough for anyone to park their car outside their garage without blocking the one opposite.

This potential house fronts onto a pavement and then the garage access land. To the side where it's attached is access to the public highway. It would just be possible to drop the kerb there then drive across the front of the house and park at the side but that would be much more of a faff than accessing the side area of the house straight from the garage access road.

The garage is not attached to the house. The blocks of garages are all level with the road level. To get up onto the side area of the house you would need to cross the pavement hence the need for a dropped kerb. It's not a particularly wide pavement, standard width.

The house is the big square circled in yellow and the garage is nearby en bloc but separated by an alley way.

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ScissorBow · 18/09/2017 18:03

Thanks dazzling that is my summation. There's nothing on the land registry which suggests en bloc garage owners must maintain the road I was assuming the red land owner would do it but yes I don't think any parking on the garages land would be possible or his space would be compromised.

The scale isn't helpful but there's about 9m of space to the side of the house which could be turned into a driveway. I don't think a dropped kerb starting away from his space and stopping at my garage would compromise his access but I also imagine unless I paid a lot it wouldn't be in his interests either.

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ScissorBow · 18/09/2017 18:06

The new house doesn't have a driveway as it's too close to the road. The side of the house is really wide and would be perfect for a driveway. I could park nose on in front of the house next to the pavement but then my DH would block me in sort of tandem style IYSWIM?

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GladAllOver · 18/09/2017 18:13

OP we can all give our opinions on this, but the only ones that count are the owners of the rights over the land. Anything else is just speculation.
If you really want to be sure about this you will need to consult everyone living in that road and ask them to check their deeds and covenants.

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dazzlingdeborahrose · 18/09/2017 18:34

I think I see what you want to do. There would be a drive to the side of your house and you would access by driving through the private road, down the dropped kerb and across to your drive. Is that it?
Theoretically, that's a possibility. It will depend on whether the owner would be agreeable. As you say, there's nothing in it for him. Open access at each end could increase traffic along both the private drive and the road the other houses are on. Could you even apply for a dropped kerb if you don't own the land? How will you feel when the other garage owners start using the dropped kerb as access (because they will)?
If I were you I'd knock on the owners door and ask them. Even if it's a no, you'll have your answer and you can make an informed decision on whether to proceed with the purchase or not.

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ScissorBow · 18/09/2017 19:14

I do understand Glad I'm just making sure I'm armed with as much information as possible before I speak to the owner.

Almost dazzling. Currently there's a dead end where my house is at the end with an alley way through to a field pedestrian access only as there's a post in the ground and a metal narrowing restrictor to prevent any motorised vehicles. I can't see why a dropped kerb at the end of the dead end up the pavement onto what would be my driveway would be of interest to anyone else because there would still be no through road, it would end at my house/driveway. There wouldn't be any open access because right across the end would be owned by me from the house to the edge of the alley way and then the garage on the other side. That big great gap would actually be my garden (land bought off other land owner in years gone by) hence why it's an amazing house!

There isn't anything in it for the red land owner except money so that's the only negotiating position I've got. It's an amazing house otherwise but no off road parking on that road would be very difficult with 2 under 5s.