Strip of land between two drives - help

[musicposy]

Our neighbours are difficult people and so we always to our best not to fall out with them. If someone drops something off at ours and blocks the drive they'll be out complaining in seconds yet they have workmen block us in all day. We have to be very careful not to let our dogs bark at all or they threaten us yet their boys play very loud music. So you get the picture.
We are a terraced house and between our drive and theirs is a strip of concrete.
Unusually for them, the man collared DH and said they were going to get that bit gravelled. DH said that was fine; its not in great condition and they are the kind of people who spend out on some new house improvement every month. I said it didn't bother us.
However, yesterday they dug it all up along with their drive and its now becoming apparent that they are going to gravel it with their drive as a complete entity.

I've no idea who owns this shared bit but can they do this? No one else round the estate has. It's made more difficult because I really dont want to get into long dispute with them - they can be quite nasty - and we dont have the money for long legal disputes. But I can see that they are basically going to take that bit as their drive, part of which is outside our house. If they park on that bit we wont be able to get a car in or out.
Any advice?

[Collaborate]

You should tell them that you intend to mark the boundary in some way. You can always change your mind about them gravelling your side of the strip. Perhaps plant things.

Make sure you have to hand the plan though.

There's one thing trying to keep the peace with your neighbour, bit another thing entirely letting them take your land like this.

[samuelwhiskers]

It sounds as though you should keep the concrete, is it too late? From what you describe, the drives will look a bit odd if their drive goes over onto yours, ie not lined up with the houses. Try not to be intimated by them and speak to them about it, perhaps look at your deeds as there might be a plan/boundary of the driveways with the house. Then you can show it to them if it escalates. Don't let them get away with it as it might affect your resale value and after so many years ( not sure legally how much), they can claim squatters rights over that strip. It happened to us.

[musicposy]

Yes, we just woke up yesterday morning to find them digging it out. Today it's all been flattened over with their drive as if it's all theirs.
I don't have any deeds to the house - where would they be? How can I get them? I'll need that as proof, I guess. What a nightmare!

[musicposy]

Our drive now looks tiny and theirs looks huge. No one else round the estate has done this, not one. Just us who have the nightmare neighbours.

[LIZS]

Land Registry have an online site where you can download deeds - yours and theirs - for a relatively small fee. Unless there is a covenant which controls how the drives are presented, and it is still enforceable by the interested parties, I doubt you can stop them per se.

[LIZS]

here

[EuroShaggleton]

I second what LIZS said.

I predict you are going to fall out about this... You need to mark the boundary in some way, with some of the gravel on your side, or they are just going to use all of it as theirs.

[hamilton75]

Hi

This is my first post! I just wanted to second what the poster said about the Land Registry. If you follow the link for a couple of pounds you can get a definitive answer about who legally owns that area of land. Just check the plan that you can download. If it is yours, have a word with your neighbour or if that fails a warning letter from a licensed conveyance should do the trick (they are often far more experienced than general solicitors in property matters and cheaper too).

Even if it is not yours you will have built up rights of access through years of uninterrupted use and again I would suggest that you mark this by way of correspondence via a legal channel to ensure your rights are protected. It really need not cost much money, most places will give initial advice for free and then a follow up letter to the neighbour less than £50.
If the Land Registry confirms the land is not theirs then the ball is in their court to have to prove otherwise and this can be costly and time consuming. Good luck!

[EasterHoliday]

the land registry plans may well not be detailed enough / a small enough scale to determine ownership of a very small strip of land - the width of the red pen they use may be wider than the land in question. however - if the estate houses are all the same you might find that estate plans are drawn up in much more detail. Try the solicitors you used when you bought the house - they might charge to retrieve your file but they'll have the inforation if the land reg plan doesn't show definitively

[samuelwhiskers]

OP - oh no, sorry that they have already done the drive. Does your drive line up to the boundary of the wall of your house? Try and talk to them quite quickly to see how they react. For instance can you put a low box hedge or low fence, see how they react to this suggestion - they can't stop you doing this but you can see what line they take and if they agree to compromise. You could say that you are really disappointed how it has turned out, you had no idea it would look like this and it just makes your drive look tiny, not great for resale. Then as Lizs says, you can download the deeds from the Land Registry and take it further. Hope it all works out for you, there is always one neighbour like this in any road or village!

[LandRegistryRep]

Such issues can be quite common and as others have suggested legal advice is always recommended.
We supply a few FAQs relevant to boundary issues on our website www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/faqs#boundary which will give you some idea as to what information we hold and how it may be useful in such circumstances.
If the properties are part of a development then a copy of the transfer from the developer to the first owner may also be of interest as this may show the plots in more detail on the included plan and/or refer to 'covenants' which restrict what can or cannot be done to the driveway or frontage of the property for example.

However I would stress that the information obtainable from Land Registry is simply that, information. How you, the neighbour or a legal adviser interpret that information along with the reality on the ground is the important part.

Deciding how far you are able or willing to challenge their actions i.e. through the courts if necessary should also be considered.

Such disputes can be costly, stressful and ultimately may have a knock-on effect should you wish to sell the property in the future i.e. disputes have to be revealed.

For that reason we always recommend trying to reach an agreement and/or obtaining the registered information and seeking legal advice. There is no hard and fast rule as to the outcome of such issues as so much can depend on the type of neighbours involved - you have already indicated this as a problem so discussing the situation with someone independent and able to offer legal advice is advisable.

[musicposy]

Thank you for all that advice! We have looked at the deeds and it appears that the boundary goes straight down the middle, so they have dug up part of our property. The problem is that we are a terraced house with no obvious distinction between where there house ends and ours starts from the outside. It's just continuous brick between the garage doors - but their garagehas been converted so with the window and extra brick it makes it even harder to see the line. It was only really this middle strip denoting it.

We don't have the money for legal procedings. We are hand to mouth, no savings, no extra money available anywhere. I am going to have to let it lie rather than risk spending money on legal costs, annoyingly. I cannot afford to get into a battle that is going to end up costing us ££££ for the sake of a 12 inch strip of land, however, annoying this is.

Anyway, DH did go round there to speak to them. They have gone on holiday whilst this is being done but their sons (late teens/ early 20s) are in there and DH spoke to of one them. I think they were quite reassuring and have spoken to the builders since.

The builders now seem to be leaving our half and not doing anything with it. This is slightly annoying because now we have a dirty great deep trench to make good where there was perfectly good concrete before - they've basically destroyed our property and then left it.

However, I still think this is better than them gravelling/ bricking it over as if it's theirs so at the moment it looks as though we have an at least slightly better outcome. DH will dump some earth in there from the back garden and grass seed it when it's all done. Of course, they may yet do something with it - the boys (who are always more reasonable and friendly than their parents) seemed unsure what was going on but thought they weren't trying to take our land.

Thanks again for all your advice - it is very much appreciated!

[footphobic]

I appreciate that you don't have money to spare to follow this up legally, and I can understand why you feel you'll have to let it lie, but there is a principle at stake.

Under the circumstances I would write them a brief formal letter stating that you have consulted the deeds and it is clear that the strip is divided equally along the border between the two neighbouring properties and therefore co-owned.

Make very clear that your half cannot be adopted as part of their driveway and they are only entitled to take their driveway to the mid point of the strip.

If it were me, I would also ask them/their builders to refill the trench.

Bearing in mind they are difficult people, I would use neutral, professional type language and just be very clear and to the point, but I would do it. I know people don't like confrontation or fall-outs with neighbours, and these are not nice people but though it may only be a small strip, it doesn't entirely belong to them. You need to make clear that they cannot arrogantly do what they want without consulting you and stand up to them.

I would think about putting some kind of division between with a small fence or planting.

[tallulah]

Our old neighbours tried this one. General chitchat outside about "tidying up" the strip of grass between the drives, then the next thing they put in a planning application claiming they owned it

Put a stop to that but cost money to do so.

Don't let it lie or you will have problems when you go to sell.

[2plus1]

An alternative option is to speak to the builders who are doing the work. In order for them to do the alterations they have to have a signed contract/agreement from the 'land owner' to go ahead. If you have deeds that show your ownership of an area they have worked on then they do not have your consent for works on that strip and therefore are obliged to put that part right. You shouldn't have to do anything to remedy this, the builders should.

[lurcherlover]

My neighbours tried this on, and at the back, where they "helpfully" offered to repair the fence separating us - THEIR fence, I might add, nice of them to offer! They proceeded to move said fence a foot over onto our side. DH pointed this out and they claimed they hadn't noticed but then moved it back. Sounds like yours need a tougher approach though. Can you draft a very legal and correct letter (seems lots of info on here already to help you) which implies you have taken legal advice already and are giving them this opportunity as a goodwill gesture to put it right, before taking legal action? Call their bluff a bit?