Government consultation into allowing coroners to investigate stillbirths: have your say

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

The government has announced a public consultation over a proposal to allow coroners to carry out investigations into the circumstances around stillbirths.

The Ministry of Justice says:

"Whilst we have robust and comprehensive systems for establishing the possible causes of a stillbirth and reviewing the care that had been provided, there is room to further strengthen these processes. Although many parents are satisfied with the results of these reviews, others feel they have not always been listened to, or that they have not had access to all the facts. Still other parents are concerned that the lessons revealed in these reviews are not always put into practice."

"Over the years there have been calls from bereaved parents, charities and others for a more transparent and independent process for determining the causes of, and learning from, stillbirths. It is time we considered this important and sensitive issue in detail."

"Some of those calling for change have identified coronial investigations as the way to deliver an improved process, while the Chief Coroner for England and Wales has repeated his call for proper consideration of the question whether or not to give coroners powers to investigate stillbirths."

You can read more about the consultation, and find a link to a survey for responses, here.

We'd be interested to hear what you think.

Thanks
MNHQ

[JaneEyre07]

It sounds very positive.

I had an unexplained stillbirth many years ago... my son would be in his 20s now but the pain of the loss never goes away. Every anniversary, christmas, mothers day.... there is just this big gaping hole. And no one could tell us why. We had a post mortem on our son that showed his organs were normal and the placental was normal, but my son stiill died for some reason. And no chromosomal abnormalities were found other. We were just assured it was "one of those things" and to go away and have more children when I'd physically recovered.

The stillbirth rates in this country are a disgrace and if this stops even one more baby dying, then it's a positive in my eyes.

[BlackSatinDancer]

I would only have to read the account from JaneEyre07 to decide to give Coroners the powers to investigate. I'm not sure a consultation is necessary.

It is totally unsatisfactory to have an unknown cause of death for anyone.

I'm sorry for your loss JaneEyre07.

[SiliconHeaven]

I’m concerned about the flip side. Women in America and other countries have been charged with manslaughter following still births. There was one in Indiana last February where the mother admitted using drugs whilst pregnant.

[ginnybag]

I'd support it, particularly because my own daughter came within a hair's breadth of being one of the number, and I, personally, know three families who have been affected by late term and at birth deaths. It's far too many.

We can't improve practices and guidelines if we can't identify causes.

In a 1st world country, no child's death should ever be brushed off as 'one of those things' (I'm so sorry for your loss, and for it ever being viewed in this way, JaneEyre07) with no cause found.

While I can see the concern you raise SiliconHeaven, I don't think that should be enough to stop this, if only because - should information like that come to light - it can be used to pressurise for more funding and resources to help pregnant women struggling with addiction and to reinforce the message to others not to use or to drink, not even once.

[mondaylisasmile]

In a 1st world country, no child's death should ever be brushed off as 'one of those things' (I'm so sorry for your loss, and for it ever being viewed in this way, JaneEyre07) with no cause found.

I 100% agree with this.

I support the proposal.

[LunaticFringe]

Our dd was stillborn. I had reported problems to the consultant during pregnancy that weren't properly investigated. The same consultant was responsible for 'investigating' the cause of the stillbirth. Unsurprisingly no cause was identified.
I would have wholeheartedly supported a coroner's investigation into my dd's almost certainly avoidable death.

[cantbearsed1]

I wholeheartedly support this. But just wanted to add that sometimes the cause of death is still unknown even with an inquest. However, inquests would be more likely to expose when deaths happen because of mismanagement and poor practices, than our current system.

[TakemedowntoPotatoCity]

I support this wholeheartedly

[MRex]

It's got to be worth doing in case coroners are able to identify any avoidable cause of death that wouldn't be found through internal hospital processes. The pain and horror for any parents when a child dies is awful, my condolences to anyone reading this who's had a stillbirth.

[iolaus]

I've also read another article on the same thing which said they could be conducted and investigated even if the parents do not want it - I have no issue with coroners being able to investigate stillbirths, I do have an issue with the grieving parents not having a choice

Unfortunately stillbirths are often unexplained even with investigations (my personal belief is that these unexplained stillbirths and sudden infant death syndrome are caused by the same thing - even though we currently don't know what it is)

[LunaticFringe]

I should add that we're about 90% certain what was behind mine and one routine test would have shown it up if it had been done and indeed it should have been done based on my history and symptoms.

[endofthelinefinally]

I absolutely agree that this should happen.
Too many women are fobbed off and turned away when they have concerns about fetal movement or other issues.
Every still birth should be properly investigated.

[3boysandabump]

Sorry for you loss @JaneEyre07

I fully support this. No parent should ever have to hear 'it's just one of those things' in those circumstances

[Sindragosan]

If there was a robust system for investigation of stillbirths there wouldn't be any need for the coroner to be involved, unfortunately hospitals can and do fob parents off after stillbirths and not everyone can or wants to fight at that time. I'm sure there was a hospital that was registering live births with deaths shortly after as stillbirths purely to avoid the coroner and thorough investigation.

As someone who's been through the process with the coroner, its not necessarily what we would have chosen, but it did have a thorough investigation which identified issues and led to positive changes being implemented, which may not have happened without the coroner being involved. Yes its a painful process, but the death of a child is anyway, if it can lead to improvements for everyone it is worth considering.

[Lardlizard]

Yes I’d like to see this happen
Along with routine 3rd trimester scans and routine gestational diabetes testing

[bagsofbats]

My daughter was stillborn on her due date 10 years ago. We were asked whether we wanted a post mortem in the hours after her birth and strongly advised against it by the consultant being told that they often didn't result in finding out what happened. We were in no condition to make that decision and were under pressure to make it there and then.

Whilst I am reconciled with the fact that we may not have found out what the cause of our daughter's death was (the placenta was sent away and deemed to be fine) I do not think we should have been asked to make the decision when we did or without the suggestion that if they did find the reason then our daughter's death might have added to medical knowledge.

This proposal would have taken the decision out of our traumatised and ignorant hands and away from th consultant's bias.

[Dancingbea]

But it needs to be the parents’ choice.

[Lardlizard]

Bag of bats I agree a lot of parents are steered towards no post Mortom
The drs and staff should not be trying to influence things

[bagsofbats]

@Dancing yes but with unbiased information on what the outcome may mean. We also had no opportunity to take advice from friends or family or elsewhere and were expected to make the decision within hours of discovering our daughter had died. We were not in a position to make an informed decision at the point we were asked to make it.

[PolarBearDisguisedAsAPenguin]

My daugher’s death was also “one of those things” despite having a full post mortem. An unacceptably high number of babies die and a lot of those deaths are preventable.

[Lardlizard]

Don’t like the way they have worded this ....

“Our rates of stillbirth are the lowest on record but they are still higher than some other comparable countries, which have succeeded in bringing rates down even further. There is much to be proud of in the year-on-year falls in the proportion of pregnancies that end in a stillbirth, demonstrating an almost constant decline since the 1980s. Nevertheless, we believe that there is still more that can be done. ”

Hmmmm not really sure this country stillbirth rate is anything to be proud of

“There’s much to be proud on in the year by year falls on the number of still births”

Fucking disgraceful is what I’d call it
And it’s not other content that are comparable to us
Other country that are not as Welty as this country have. Better rates

[Lardlizard]

IMO when there is an unknown cause there’s still a cause they simply don’t know what that cause was

[Tolleshunt]

I absolutely agree with this.

One of many positive effects this may have, is to highlight even further the need for the NHS to provide a routine third scan, in the third trimester.

I had to have my DD early, after scans found she had growth restriction, and I had reduced movements. The IUGR would not have been discovered before birth had I not paid for private scans. By the tape-measure method (which always seems positively medieval to me), I was measuring spot on what I should be for gestation. It was only the scan that picked up the problem. If I had relied on the NHS, who knows if my DD would be with us. I was told, after birth, that the placenta was too small, and prematurely aged. She might well not have made it to 40 weeks.

My profound sympathies to all those who have suffered the heartbreak of stillbirth.

[RowanMumsnet]

Thanks very much for your responses so far. Big to those of you personally affected - thanks for sharing your stories.

Can we ask whether people are filling in the consultation survey? Or would you like us at MNHQ to submit an organisational response based on replies to this thread?