What's happening with gb and eu?

[MusicMum18]

Hi,
I have a 10 month old baby and have had my head in the sand and I have no idea on what is happening regarding the issue of whether we should stay in the eu or not.

Can someone please give me a simple, idiots guide as to what is going on?

I'm aware Cameron wants in and boris wants out, but I am wondering what the pros and cons are of each, so that I can work out what I think we should do.

Thanks!😀

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

I can't give you an answer as to in or out because there are so many issues.

However to start the ball rolling, The Gov appears to be playing double standards. They contacted the British Chamber of Commerce to complain about the ex DG saying that Mr C had not managed to deliver meaningful reform, yet the govenor of the Bank of England seems to be allowed to say that leaving is a risk.

I have always thought that when someone stops debate, they have lost the argument.

[Twinsareplenty]

There is no guide available - as no one can predict what things will be like either way.
Ever closer union says it for me though.
And Turkey's views of women further confirms my decision.

[Twinsareplenty]

Oh, and ignore the politicians - they're all idiots. Go google.

[prh47bridge]

The Gov appears to be playing double standards

The government has strongly denied contacting the BCC or playing any role in the suspension of their DG. The BCC has also denied that there had been any outside involvement in their decision. There is absolutely no evidence of government involvement. He was suspended for making several high profile interventions in favour of leaving the EU contrary to the BCC's policy of remaining neutral.

The Governor of the Bank of England is entitled to warn about the risks of political decisions. He was somewhat more measured than some of the reporting of his remarks. He said that it is the biggest domestic risk to financial stability but that the global risks are bigger than the domestic risks. So we should be more worried about China than brexit in his view. He also highlighted the risks in remaining in the EU. Overall his remarks were pretty neutral but proponents of brexit object to any suggestion that there might be risks associated with leaving the EU, hence the fuss.

[SpringingIntoAction]

A poster called Scatteroflight wrote the following on a different thread about the EU. If I knew how to think to it I would. I thnk Scatteroflight asks some very interesting questions in an attempt to reach a decision about the EU ---

^Scatteroflight wrote
These are some simple questions I've posed to myself to determine In or Out. Perhaps they'll be useful for others.

Who do I want to run the UK?
A) British politicians (whether Lab or Con or whatever)
B) EU politicians (Merkel / Juncker / Tusk / Barroso)

What matters more to me?
A) GDP, economic issues, corporate profit
B) Sovereignty and democracy

Which worries me more?
A) Economic uncertainty and other EU countries exacting revenge post-Brexit via punitive trade deals
B) Massive immigration, the migrant crisis and Turkey's future to accession to the EU

What stirs me more?
A) The idealism of a Federal Europe, ever closer union and a continent without Borders where anyone can work or settle in any country
B) Sovereign nation states determining their own laws, customs and futures based on the will of their People

And, again in the light of Turkey's promised visa-free access in June plus future accession, which country would I prefer the UK to have a border with?
A) France
B) Syria

I said on another thread that the arguments over the economic effects of Brexit are so hotly contested by both sides that they cancel eachother out. The fact is even the experts don't know what the real effects would be. Therefore in order to make a decision I feel one has to focus on all the other issues in play. Simple heuristic questions like the above have helped me to crystallise my view.
^

[scarlets]

Yougov released a map of voting intentions to date. It looks as if the strongest "outs" so far are in areas of high immigration and the strongest "ins" are in places like Ceredigion and NE Scotland that benefit from EU policy on farming/fishing. People seem to looking at how their vote benefits them , which is ynderstandable enough. Lots of uncertain voters though, and plenty who could be swayed.

That's assuming we can trust pollsters of course!

[PigletJohn]

There is a certain amount of disinformation circulating. For some reason Boris is particularly prone to publicising untrue stories. Maybe he is just an idiot, or maybe he makes things up recklessly, or maybe he finds his supporters believe anything he says.

There are a few examples on
www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35603388?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=56ded69a4a00009dadef3000%26Did%20the%20EU%20try%20to%20make%20Crossrail%20tunnels%20bigger%3F%26&ns_fee=0#post_56ded69a4a00009dadef3000

Anti-Europeans tend to be older people. However, they are more likely to vote, so they may overwhelm the slightly higher number of younger pro-Europeans. Older people are more likely to read the anti-EU Daily Mail, the anti-EU Daily Express, or the anti-EU Sun. They tend to complain that the BBC, which is not anti-EU, is biased.

As far as I can make out the FT has no particular political axe to grind, you might find this Quiz interesting.

video.ft.com/4764197296001/Quiz-What-has-the-EU-done-for-Britain-/world

[SpringingIntoAction]

Anti-Europeans tend to be older people. However, they are more likely to vote, so they may overwhelm the slightly higher number of younger pro-Europeans. Older people are more likely to read the anti-EU Daily Mail, the anti-EU Daily Express, or the anti-EU Sun. They tend to complain that the BBC, which is not anti-EU, is biased.

Great, I'll tell that to my 28 year old anti-EU child, who reads the Guardian and their equally anti-EU friends.

We are also told the anti-EU tend to be poorly educated d/anor from lower economic classes.

[grimbletart]

Any anti-EU ness on the part of older people may have something to do with the fact that we all voted in 1975 for the EEC (the clue is in the middle E - economic) and were told by the great and the good that it would mean no loss of sovereignty, no integration into Europe etc.

And whatdya know? The economics has become a side show in a huge political utopian scheme of ever closer integration and loss of national sovereignties, which of course some may like.

It isn't a question of what newspaper you read or whether you are left or right, it's whether you trust the EU to be in your best interest in the long term or not. Not to mention whether or not you trust the latest declarations about no closer integration (sound of pigs flying overhead as the EU cannot succeed without political, economic and fiscal integration if the Euro is not to continue on its road to being a busted flush).

The far left and the far right in the persons of Tony Benn and Enoch Powell in 1975 predicted what would happen and shared the same platform to oppose it then.

[PigletJohn]

Perhaps I should have added that although the polls show that Ins and Outs are closely matched in numbers, currently with a small lead by the "Ins," for some reason the "Outs" are much more voluble on web forums.

On an entirely unrelated topic, there are suggestions that as the Scots are predominantly "In," they may seek a referendum making England independent of Scotland, so that Scotland could remain In the EU, and the remaining UK be Out.

[WidowWadman]

On the whole sovereignty thing here's an interesting blog by renowned legal blogger David Allen Green. jackofkent.com/2016/03/five-things-about-david-cameron-and-sovereignty

On the question of how well Britain would be able to negotiate after Brexit this makes interesting reading:m.facebook.com/groups/432752480128761?view=permalink&id=996414913762512

[SpringingIntoAction]

On an entirely unrelated topic, there are suggestions that as the Scots are predominantly "In," they may seek a referendum making England independent of Scotland, so that Scotland could remain In the EU, and the remaining UK be Out

Bring it on!