George Orwell and Immigration

[speedySleighmamahohoho]

I've read his book "Animal Farm" a number of times and I was wondering what he would make of the hysteria in the media over immigration to this country.

Let's be honest, the media never attack the number of migrants from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc because they are predominantly white, speak English and are deemed acceptable. However, non white immigrants and those from the poor Eastern European countries are treated with disdain and viewed as inferior.

I wonder if Orwell would have written
"All immigrants are equal but some are more equal than others" in light of this observation?

As the daughter of Jamaican immigrants that is certainly how I see things.

[KTeePee]

Yes I agree, I think attacks on "immigrants" generally are down to underlying rascist/xenophobic attitudes.

[DimpledThighs]

very interesting point (off to find copy of animal farm)

[zippitippitoes]

It's also to do with pressures at local community level, areas where there is already a community in turmoil struggles to cope with an influx of immigrants



Refugees from idi ahmin era also had fewer dificulties settling..professionals and entrepreneurs tend to be more accepted

Impoverished communities feel threatened by an influx of new people

polish/eastern eurpopean immigrants do tend to congregate together in very large and fast growing groups in locations near ports and points of entry..it is the speed and the size of the influx which catches authorities and communities by surprise and causes the pressure/powder keg effect

The first wave usually are accepted and accommodated but the following waves and those who have less well defined ambitions follow and it is often then that problems begin

the same thing happens in immigrants from the UK to france, Spain etc..the initial incomers are welcomed but once the balance is distorted then the indigenous poulous rear up

It's the same in wales or even the West country (but interestingly for different reasons)..in this case the incomers are wealthier and push the local economy out of kilter because of their affluence rather than their poverty

It is the degree to which the immigrants collapse the local economy which is key

[SherlockLGJ]

I have been on MN too long, I read this as George Orwell and Implantation.


I am not TTC either.


Sorry SpeedyM

[Tortington]

bit of an aldous huxley ref somewhere there sherlock


take the pills
take the pills

[DominiConnor]

A couple of years ago, I found myself at a dinner party wholly consisting of Daily Mail readers.
I used my standard line about the fact that immigrants are on average better educated and more economically active than the "native" population.
Tthat was the problem...

By global standards, your average Brit ain't that well educated, and the Daily Mail is read by people whose perfectly rational fear is that us immigrants will compete with them and win.
They got particularly upset by me sharing the demographics of various university departments.
Almost no first generation immigrant kids like me do dead end subjects like French or Spanish.
I'm not sure what would happen if a smart Chinese kid told his parents he was going to do media studies, but it would not be pretty, r quiet.
Daily Mail readers know in their hearts that they have a comfortable lifestyle by luck, not personal merit, and they want to be protected against competition.

[Tortington]

did you just say languages and media studies are for thick people?

[Tortington]

bad luck DC on being in daily mail dinner party.

i didn't think daily mailers did dinner parties.

[fortyplus]

Daily Mail dinner party... shudder

[Tortington]

most people i know come have mixed heretige and cant see irony in their racism.

[zippitippitoes]

I'm not sure about the Chinese and media studies my ds gf is chinese and is doing fashion design

though she is in fact italian..she has an italian grandma

her parents have homes (and businesses)in hongkong england france and italy

[uwila]

My favourite part is "Almost no first generation immigrant kids like me do dead end subjects..." So, DC, you don't count yourself among the stupid British but rather you are one of the intellectually superior immigrants. Shall we put that up for a MN poll?

Speedymama, do you not think opposition to some categories of immigrants has more to do with their education and earning potential than barbaric racism? Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and Americca all have a fairly high standard of education and so people who come from there are generally quite capable of getting jobs and providing for themselves rather than leaning on the state.

[fortyplus]

You've obviously been reading the Mail...

[goldenoldie]

Thank God for immigration.

All my childcare and domestic labour (with a single exception) has been done by non-UK nationals - Australisians and Eastern Europeans. If it were not for them I certainly would not have been able to keep down a busy job.

Yes, I picked them over UK nationals because they had better qualifications and/or more experience.

[fortyplus]

Better qualifications for domestic labour?????

This country needs to be grateful for all the immigrants working in the NHS - but sadly it's often at the expense of their own countries.

[paulaplumpbottom]

I am an immigrant, but I'm from the states. When people discuss immigration when I'm around and someone says something silly like "we should just shut the borders" and I remind them that I am an immigrant they always say some thing like " Oh not you, your not the sort of immigrant we mean". I think thats ridiculous and quite rascist.

[uwila]

But, do you not think that say the Polish suffer from this sort of stereotype -- I would certainly classify them as white.

I don't know -- perhaps I'm naive. I don't know a lot of immigrants (except for myself of course).

[paulaplumpbottom]

I think most people feel that people from economically viable countries are more acceptable. Australians, Canadians, and Americans and type of that sort.

[fortyplus]

paulaplumpbottom - that's it exactly. If you're white and speak English (or American!) as your native tongue then the racist types aren't bothered by you.

[fortyplus]

uwila - I have a Nigerian friend (very black - strong accent) who used to suffer a lot of racism in London but says it's fine here (Herts).
But actually she can be a bit racist about people who come here without good English expecting to be given accommodation and benefits.

[zippitippitoes]

I think it's also conspicuousness

in Southampton, for example, there is a big Polish community and because there are areas of let houses with 8 or 12 men in cramped accommodation in they go out all the time, they get out and socialise on the streets and pubs, ergo they drink more and fight and are abusive to passers by etc That is a reason why people complain, not because they are Polish but because the circumstances of their lifestyle create problems. The initial wave got jobs and sent money home etc but they also sent word home and more people come and the local economy can't support them. but they do still have hopes and aspirations so some go home with a tail between their legs but others come and replace them. Eventually things should settle down or not as we see in france.

[zippitippitoes]

and further in reply to Dc ..didn't a lot of Chinese cockle pickers die because they were working in dire circumstances not because they were studying media

[JoolsToo]

I like your first post zippi and concur.

DC, if your dinner party consisted 'wholly' of DM readers why were you there (and Lord help them)?

My dinner parties usually go down a storm but you lot will never have the pleasure

[BadHair]

Just popping back to the orginal question, I'm quite sure that Orwell, as a socialist and internationalist, would not have been too chipper about the media's racist frenzy concerning immigration.

I would imagine that he would have quite vocally sided with the often destitute worker immigrants, rather than than the self-satisfied bourgeoisie media-types. As do I, actually.

"Bourgeoisie", now there's a word you don't hear too often nowadays.