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Page 2 | "behave yourself, woman.” - Alex salmond(78 Posts)
I don't think talk like that has any place in modern politics. Why do SNP supporters say they are so differentand progessive forward thinking? Just the same as them all.
My husband has tried it on me and got short shrift.
I've NEVER heard anyone say "Behave yourself, Man." Never.
Didn't watch it lonny can't stand Thr man.
MrsB, technically my ex was from south queens ferry not Edinburgh and my uncle lived in west Lothian - no idea if they count as fancy! But I've never ever heard anything similar to that said as anything but a put down and I've never known it as a piece of common dialect.
I've said "behave yourself man/woman/bairn", it's a big fat nothing.
I've heard "be-HAYVE" spoken to both sexes.
'dear' much more offensive that 'woman' IMO, in this context. I know, I am Scottish and don't mind AS. DH who is English, albeit is an adopted Scot of sorts, but he doesn't like AS that much, heard the clip and said 'It's a misunderstanding due to language'.
TBH I think AS, with all his alleged skills in speaking, should have been more careful. He knows the right-wing English press(and others) is out to get him. He was trying to be light-hearted and it fell flat.
But, as Joan Burnie said on the Radio 4 news at 10, he'll be enjoying all the attention.
I'm not really a politically correct type but I think his remark was way out of order. And it is a sexist remark.
Thanks to MN I'm much more on the ball about sexist behaviour and I have two boys so really clamp down on any sexist stuff said in my hearing but I honestly wouldn't blink an eyelid if my DH said this to me. It's like a verbal elbow in the ribs with a cheeky grin, iykwim.
But clearly it's not seen than way by everyone so AS isnt likely to use it again. But I genuinely don't think it was used to be an arse. This time. He's said plenty of arsey stuff other times.
He certainly plays to the gallery!
'Behave' IS said, and 'woman' and 'man' is often tagged onto some exhortation. Not necessarily together. Often I've heard it as 'Hurry up, woman/man'. All over Scotland. I've also heard 'Behave' as in BE-have separately. It's not really patronising in context.
But the House of Common have rules on correct language, and nowhere is Cameron's 'dear' etc. said acceptable either. One is as bad as the other when it comes to addressing their 'honourable friends'. Standards have dropped dramatically in the last 5 years IMO. Salmond has been back at WM only a few weeks. So work that one out, Wimmin. The Speaker should sort them all out pronto.
I cannot imagine any circumstances in a workplace where I would be happy to be spoken to in that way by a male colleague. And I am no fan at all of Soubry, but this is a principle thing.
At the very least it was graceless and patronising. But then I really don't expect much different from Wee Eck. Bumptious twerp.
I'm in the north east of England. I've said similar and heard similar. I think it is a regional thing. Probably a bit too familiar for the house of commons though.
As with anything it can come down to situation, tone and familiarity.
Posted this on the other thread -
It's a bit too close to 'calm down dear' isn't it? I think some of the colloquialism from Scottish phrases can be sexist - even when meant jovially/with affection. Interesting though that this female conservative accuses salmond of being sexist/highlights this comment as offensive - hopefully (if around for previous cameron put downs, assuming she's not a newly elected MP) she's been consistent about other instances of sexist put downs in the commons - Id rather this stuff was highlighted/taken seriously than people feign faux offense for political gain/point scoring.
Ok didn't take me long to find Anne Sourbry has herself been pulled up for making, ahem, inadvisable sexist comments herself. For some reason I can't post the link but she's commented about female/part time GPs being a 'burden' on the NHS - said knowingly as 'controversial' but she felt able to say it as she's a woman.
I think it's a sexist put down, & salmond should be pulled up for it, but I'm sensing Sourbry's offense is more political point scoring than sincerely felt. Which is a pity as it just undermines efforts to stamp out language that is demeaning & serves only to belittle (in a sexist way) women in politics.
It is just a regional expression which isn't sexist, as it has its opposite-sex equivalent which has the same tone, BUT Alex Salmond isn't stupid, and should understand the way it could be read by a wider audience, so it was ill-judged and obviously offensive as a public utterance by a politician.
There is definitely a wider issue of the language used at Westminster and the amount of "banter" that's considered appropriate in what ought to be a professional environment, certainly.
And there's a wider issue of AS thinking he knows better than everyone else.
And there's a wider issue of needing to be sensitive to the problems of society and how our actions are perceived within that paradigm.
But in this case he was being just a bit of a dick, not a total dick.
This is a Scottish regional expression and variations could be "Away and behave yourself, wifie/man", "Behave!" etc. It would be uttered in a faux shock context and not a sexist one.
Shut up, dickhead.
It's just an expression we use
The use of wifie is quite interesting in itself too. Examining your own culture is sometimes no bad thing.
Orlando that was deffo part of my learned culture! (And I was thinking about it in relation to Salmond's comment. )
AS is an arse. I would not be at all pleased if someone said that to me here in Glasgow and that's putting it mildly.
But of course it's dialect. The Father of the Nation can do no wrong!
I can't believe that MN is not up in arms about this, when it gets so cross about tiny little bits of sexism, it was a dreadful comment.
I don't think dialect is an excuse.
I am Scottish. Yes, it is Scottish dialect. Yes, Scotland is a sexist society. Sadly, Alex Salmond's expression was casual sexism in exactly the same way as David Cameron's 'calm down dear'. Both are colloquial expressions and both are sexist.
Ds1 has, on occasion, said to me 'Grow up, woman' - when he thinks I am not behaving as befits my years. But I know he's doing it in a jokey way, and take no offense from it.
But what Salmond said does sound sexist to me - it sounds as if he was trying to put down and silence someone, and used the best weapon he had to hand.
I also think he is intelligent and worldly enough to know that what he said would not be understood, or well received outside of Scotland, and that it definitely is not good Parliamentary etiquette, and he should have known better.
Is a Scottish way with words and quite often Wifie is substituted for woman.
In fact I would say that Wifie is more common where Im from in Scotland.
I guess some people just like to go through life looking for things to be offended about.
Exactly Whatthe. Yes, it is Scottish dialect, that doesn't mean it isn't sexist. Thankfully we aren't compelled to repeat the speech patterns we grew up with or I would be both sexist and racist on a regular basis...
Also, Weebirdie - something that is acceptable and inoffensive in one area may well have offensive connotations in another area, and as I said, Salmond is savvy enough to know that, in England, calling someone 'Woman' in that way, will cause offense.
This doesn't mean that the Scottish people who use that term to eachother, without offence being given or taken, are wrong, but nor does it mean that an English woman who does take offence to that phrase, is wrong either.
There's nothing wrong with expecting people to adjust their language and terminology, based on context and situation. We all do it, surely? There are words I will use on here, or when I am talking to dh, that I wouldn't dream of even murmuring in front of my mother - she'd kill me!
I know that the word 'fuck' is offensive and unacceptable to mum, but much less so to dh - so I adjust my language in order not to give offence to mum - that's just good manners and being a reasonable person, surely?