The hand that rocks the cradel (guardian weekend supplement)

[NannyL]

Did anyone read this article or have any opinions on it?
I ask because im one of the nannies they quote! (name changed obviously!)

[roisin]

link is here

I haven't read it yet though!

[DingDongMerrilyOnHIGHLANDER]

badly written article. Nannies become attached to their sprogs. Get upset when they change jobs. I still don't really get what the "point" of the article was

[JingEllBells]

I think the point was that parents (generalising massively of course) want childcarers to care for their (the parents') children with as much commitment and attention as if they were their own kids, but they don't expect them to feel real 'deep' affection for them. I thought that the article gave examples of what seemed to be some quite extreme cases, and I don't have experience of nannies (where I can see that the carer is living with the child more or less 24/7 and the bond is therefore that much closer). However, it did ring a bell with me insofar as I initially chose nursery care for my dds because I specifically did not want another woman looking after my babies and becoming a 'substitute mother' for them. I felt happier with them being a nursery (... and I was happy that the one I used was a very good one) with a selection of adult carers and other children around them. I was happy with my decision to go back to work (and anyway I was the main breadwinner at the time)... it wasn't leaving my children per se that bothered me, but the thought of them forming a 'mother-like' attachment to someone who wasn't me. When dd1 was 3 and dd2 was 18 months we moved and for various reasons ended up with a childminder rather than a nursery. My dds are incredibly close to their c/m and tell her that they love her all the time (and she always says 'I love you too'). And I don't feel jealous at all. They are perfectly well aware of who their mother is, but are also lucky enough to be looked after by someone for whom they have real affection and respect. I fully expect the relationship that they have with her to be a lifelong thing, and I feel really lucky to have found her. It's not as if love were only available in restricted amounts, and that if your child 'gives some away' to someone else there won't be enough left for you.

[hativity]

I read it and thought it was interesting. I chose childminder for dd1 and then nanny when there were two precisely because I felt that at such an age they needed one person to bond with, not the changes you get at nursery. And I felt I had to accept that if I wanted them to have a home-like bonded form of care that meant an extra important person in their lives. I always took the view that I was mum and no-one could undo that but that the more people dds have to love and be loved by the better. Totally agree with the writer when she says that children's love is inexhaustible. It's not like there's only so much and they have to portion it out. What I thought was odd though and a bit imbalanced about the article was all the cases she cited were examples of a different view - but then, as if not wanting to offend, she concludes that most parents aren't like those featured in her sample. I also thought it odd she didn't talk to parents - I know the point was to explore the carer's point of view but it's a story that needs telling from both sides. So journalistically I thought it was a bit poor, for those reasons. And the intro about her experience as an au pair was pathetic. A real case of trying way too hard to make her own experience relevant - an article that would have been much better if teh writer was absent.

[hativity]

most nannies aren't 24/7. Many are live out and many are part-time. And even live in ones have other bits ti their life - but it is a more intense relationship that does more closely relate to the role of parent that that of a nursery carer.

[Chandra]

We have never had one to one care (nor that we could remotely afford it), DS has been to nursery since he was 6m old. In this time bonding with the staff has definitively occured. i.e. I can't forget the day when I took him for the first time to his new nursery and a "new" member of the staff screamed DS name and run to him (she had been taking care of him in his previous nursery, and until then I had not realised how attached they had become ).

In the course of the year DS started talking and one day I picked him up, he explained to me that he had three mums, me, the girl mentioned above and the head of his room. Everytime I tell this story people tell me "oh! you must have felt awful" but I didn't, maybe I am a bit too generous but I was happy to know that DS was so loved in nursery that he felt at home. Obviously he lives to think the world is there to love him... he even tells me: Stop! is not your turn! you change nappies home, is X turn!

[hativity]

childminder and nursery cost about the same. nanny costs barely more then two nursery places. I agree with you about being pleased that they are loved

[Enideepmidwinter]

think its bizarre to NOT want your minded child to form a strong attachment to their carer

[Chandra]

I only have one child, may consider a nanny if I had more children though. Although for my own personal circumstances I like him to be in a place with lots of children and more than a carer.

We are very lucky that our nursery has an almost unexistent staff rotation. Most of the girls that were there when DS started at 8 m are still there now that he is almost 3. Obviously, from time to time they take students in training who do not stay for long but I assume that's the same as having somebody to visit and then not seeing them in months (which happens very often in life out of nursery)

[Chandra]

... more than one carer I meant to say. But that may change in the future

[Caligyulea]

"If you get a nanny full-time, you have to face the fact that someone is going to replace you in the child's heart."

Now there's a mad nanny.

I disagree that a childminder and nursery cost the same. Certainly not in this area. Childminders cost between £3-4 per hour (on average - some lower, some higher), nurseries cost between £5 and £7 per hour. Considerable price difference, depending on how many hours you need to buy.

[hativity]

when I did my sums for dd1 childminder and nursery (sw london) were very similar in price. I was making the point that single carers - even nannies if you have 2 kids - are not as expensive as some people think (in the scheme of things, but see that Chandra specifically said 1-1, which I guess you don't always get with a childminder (i was lucky - had a childminder who chose to only take on 2 kids plus one extra after school)

[hativity]

given my occassional appearance on grammar-type threads feel I must apologise for my terrible bracket use there

[Caligyulea]

I think it must depend on what area you live in and what the supply/ demand is like.

In Lewisham six years ago, I do vaguely remember that nursery cost the same as a childminder. Whereas here, it's vastly more expensive. And nannies cost stratospherically more than both, unless you have at least three children, when it starts to even out.

[bigbaubleeyes]

Expecting fist and wouldn't liket ot think I am replaced when I return to work so I agree with you JINGLE. I want my sone to know I am his mum and not anyone else.

[hativity]

I think that the chances of a carer substituting or replacing a mum are extremely remote. In very extreme cases where someone works a 70 hour week takes holidays without the kids, and they manage to keep the same carer from age 6 months to 16 then yes, maybe the mum might be ousted. But for most people it's just not going to happen - for one thing nobody has consistent childcare - it always changes, your needs change, your family grows, your kids start school etc etc. You, as parents, will always be there. For me personally, I felt that dds would be happier with a good relationship with a nurturing, caring individual. I can't deny feeling a pang of jealousy every now and then - it would be weird not to, but felt that was my problem, it came with the territory and I had to swallow it and get on.

[hativity]

what I mean bigbaubleeyes, is that your son WILL know you are mum, regardless of what childcare you choose.

[donnie]

I read the article and found it interesting. There seem to be so many ' nannies/ au pairs from hell' type reports and tv progs about that I thought it was good to redress the balance and show the difficulties which can arise and how vile some employers can be to their nannies. I must say I sometimes read the threads about nannies on mumsnet and have been shocked several times by the meanness and general attitude exhibited by some of the employers of nannies ! but that's another story....

[hativity]

I aslo thought the story about the word was a bit strange - but to be honest mostly coz I found it very insignificant. Why read something so deep into the mum asking what a word meant? I can remember very distinctly dd1 using a word at teh childminders that I didn;t understand, I asked what it meant. In doing so, I didn't mean "I am consumed with guilt and insecurity coz I don't know what x means and you do and you are obviously closer to my daughter than me so I might as well give up now". i just meant "what does x mean?"

[Caligyulea]

Yes but the nanny in this story deliberately didn't explain to the mother what the word meant. She deliberately chose to exclude her. That's how I read it, anyway. I agree with Tipex on this, the nannies in this article came across as self-important and pretty unaware of the nature of the bond between mother and child.

I've child-minded in my younger days and also had very strong relationships with the children (whom I still remember) but one of the things about growing up and becoming an adult, is that it's taught me that however strong and adoring my relationship was with a 2 year old eighteen years ago, if I bumped into that 20 year old now, I wouldn't recognise her from Adam. But her mother still does (I hope!).

[Enideepmidwinter]

I think its unfair to go back to work full time and leave your child with someone who you DONT want them to form a close motherly bond with. You can't have it both ways!

[hativity]

I guess so Caligula - the nanny did sound like a bit of an arse I thought she was reading something into it that probably wasn't there - that her knowing this word was proof of her superior relationship. what a load of shite. enid - I agree with you - that was what I meant lower down - I think you have to accept that your feelings come below those of your child.

[bigbaubleeyes]

ENID thats a very good point, which could lead many of us round in circles re choices/finances etc aggghhhh......

[JingEllBells]

Bigbaubleeyes... (sorry... coming back to this late, as haven't been on here today)... but what I was trying to say in my (slightly inarticulate) post, was that although I did feel scared of my dd having 'another mum' when I first went back to work, now that I have a superb childminder who my children love (and who I know really cares about them) I know that (as hatstand said) that that fear was my problem. I'm so happy with the childcare situation I have now, and I really do envisage my kids' relationship with their c/m going on into their adulthood. She's like a member of their extended family. And they've never been in any doubt as to who their mum is!