When a job/person description lists something as 'essential' is it really essential?

[SueW]

A friend, who works at a university, tells me for instance that their job descriptions almost always list a degree as essential when it's not really.

But it puts someone like me off, who would be more than capable of doing the job.

[marina]

tough one
If the recruiting department and HR are doing their jobs properly then anything listed as Essential should be and they should not shortlist some candidates who don't tick all the Essential boxes on the Person Spec, because it would then not be fair to scrupulous applicants like you who have taken that Essential criterion at face value and not bothered to apply

If you really like the job and know you can do it, I would suggest a kick-ass covering letter asserting your views and hope that they will take them on board.

We removed the "degree required" spec from one of our roles precisely for this reason - we were getting good applicants without a degree and in a huge quandary about shortlisting them. So we did the sensible thing and made it "desirable" the next time we advertised

[GooseyLoosey]

Agree with Marina. The "essential" bit would usually be part of the first sift of applications, if they didn't tick the right boxes, they would tend to get binned. However, if there was something extraordinary in the covering letter, that might save it and make people look more at the candidate's actual ability.

Nothing venture, nothing gained, but I suspect you made need quite a tough skin for this kind of strategy.

[callmeovercautious]

I like to pur degrees in desirable as there are so many people with a wealth of experience that far outstrips any new Graduate. I agree with Marina, write a covering letter saying you feel you have all the relevant experience and knowledge to do the job anyway.

I am trying to convince DP of this atm, he is looking for another job but won't apply if they ask for a Degree. He has an HND and loads of relevant experience so I think he should just go for it.

[doggiesayswoof]

I also work in a university. For jobs which list a degree as essential, only vast experience or some kind of professional qual would do instead.

So essential doesn't always mean absolutely essential but they would be looking for something extraordinary to tip the balance ime.

Agree if there's an aspect of the essential criteria you don't meet then you would need to address this up front in your covering letter and argue your case strongly.

[flowerybeanbag]

My brief test for managers writing person specs is if they can tell me what the degree 'must' be in for this person to do the job, then it can go on the list, otherwise 'good standard of education' plus all the skills/experience stuff should be enough.

[marialuisa]

I think I know the University in questionand when it comes down to it people don't automatically get rejected for not meeting the "essential" educational qualifications (although it can be a handy get out). HR doesn't do our shortlisting though, the potential line manager does so we have greater flexibility. My job description for my previous position said that "a higher degree in a relevant subject" was essential but it wasn't held against me and I have appointed several people who didn't have the paper qualifications but did have the experience/ability.

[doggiesayswoof]

callmeovercautious I think you are right! esp if he has an HND plus experience. That counts for more than a degree + no experience for some jobs.

I also think it's worth remembering that you don't know what the calibre of the other candidates is - granted, a lot of people have degrees these days, but this is rarely the only consideration.

[marina]

Yes well not all HR professionals are as shrewd as you are flowery
There is a marked tendency in HE IMHO to assume that only graduates are fit to associate with students

[marina]

The problem with that accommodating fluidity marialuisa is that it has served you and other appointees well, but potential candidates without a degree would be correct to assume they need not bother applying, and then disadvantaged in their job-seeking.
If you are eg a returner with several time-consuming applications in the pipeline, you might be feeling too discouraged to even consider "degree essential" roles regardless of your manifest ability to do the tasks in the JD
If you then came to discover that a similarly degreeless person was interviewed and appointed, you would be within your rights to query the university's commitment to Equal Ops and I would have every sympathy

[flowerybeanbag]

too true marina

I have a story. I applied for a job once. Without giving too much away, I was an astonishingly good match for it, in every way you could possibly think of. So much so that I would have been amazed if there had been anyone else better. The only 'essential' criteria I didn't meet at the time was '8 years' experience in HR'. This was because, as I am good at my job , I had moved up the ladder rather quicker than your average HR person. Which I consider to be a plus.

I didn't even get shortlisted. I phoned up and asked for feedback which I eventually got, and after me probing them, some HR person admitted that, yes, if I'd spent longer treading water not progressing as an administrator or something earlier in my career, I would have been shortlisted.

Their loss I'd say! That's not very helpful but it shows how unfortunately short-sighted, uncreative and rigid some employers are when writing ads, jds and person specs and then when shortlisting.

[marialuisa]

Well I think the response would be that the person specification/job description are a guide rather than an absolute, I don't see how equal opps comes into at all TBH? But then I don't have a job description at all for my current role so my approach to this sort of thing is definitely relaxed and no doubt entirely inappropriate!

[marina]

We've been advised by our own HR department that we should consider the JD and PS as sent to applicants, legally binding documents, marialuisa.
But that may not be the literal truth.
I do quite a lot of recruitment and my perspective on is that flexilibity and discretion, while lovely in principle, can come back and bite you on the backside, ultimately causing you more hassle than getting the JD and PS accurate and representative in the first place

[SueW]

Thanks everyone. The job I have seen - a dream job I know I could do because I know/mix with/work (voluntary) with people working at that level - is not actually at a university but is in a field where they always provide downloadable job and person specs.

I would be miffed if I found someone without a degree got it, because I can't see why there is a need for a degree.

I'm also concerned that I won't fit the mould because I haven't followed what might be a traditional route to this job and I am getting frustrated because I am starting to feel that the huge wealth of experience I have gained doing voluntary work - and not just 'bit of admin' voluntary work - is counting for nothing because of the crappy admin jobs I have been doing in term-time school hours (which have, to be honest, driven me mad with frustration) and I am tempted to totally downplay them on my CV/applications.

E.g. a large local employer rang me recently about a job paying 14k per annum, call centre shift work. FFS I earned more than that 12 years ago and have a lot more experience now in so many different areas!! As it happens, I managed to feedback through a senior exec that I wasn't happy with that experience of HR and they rang me again although there is nothing suitable at the moment.

I think I need a really good career consultation!

[flowerybeanbag]

marialuisa equal ops could come into it, particularly now we have legislation against age discrimination, could well be argued that specifying must have a degree when it can't be justified discriminates against older people who are less likely to have degrees that are much more two-a-penny now.

[callmeovercautious]

Or perhaps they are asking for a Subject that has only recently been available as a Degree (e.g. Media Studies). Most 40+ people with a degree will have an academic subject or very specific e.g Engineering/ Business Studies. Vocational Degrees are very much a modern invention so Age could come into it there.

[flowerybeanbag]

absolutely callme

SueW what I do when a manager says they think they need a degree on the person spec is ask them what positive attributes they think they will get from a person with a degree which they don't think they will get from someone who doesn't have one. Then I get them to put those extra things on their list of essentials/desirables instead. You can be really really specific in terms of skills/experience if what you need is to cut down the number of applicants.

You could try and do that in reverse, depending on the job you might be able to work out what they are actually looking for that a degree-educated person will have, and outline how you meet that. One thing they could be hoping for is someone who has good essay-writing skills for example. So you could mention excellent project-writing skills/experience. Just an example but might be worth doing. They might be hoping for something and it might not have occurred to them that someone without a degree might be able to offer it.

[Dragthing]

I work in a university as a manager. I've been on many many recruitment panels and just wanted to add a plea to anyone applying for a post to list each of the essential criteria and outline how they meet each one. It makes shortlisting so much easier if you lay things on a plate for the panel who may have tens if not hundreds of applications to go through. So many times I have been frustrated by applications which are muddled and don't seem to address the person spec.

[handlemecarefully]

Whenever I recruited in the past (when in salaried work!) I only put criteria under 'essential' if they were truly essential. I did not shortlist anyone who failed to meet essential criteria

Pretty shoddy recruitment practice otherwise

[Tortington]

larger organisations shoudl really stick to the prescribed formula theysend out

i am prettysure that other candidates can sue the organisation if theyfeel the selection criteria or interview has been predjudiced in any way.

so in my books - and in my experience in picking candidates - essential is essential

but if its a smaller place like a shop or something perhaps their knowledge or hr law is minimal and they dot give a shit?

[SueW]

Thanks fbb - and others.

I am still trawling through websites and various places to find jobs and have re-written my CV to really highlight the leadership/training/project stuff and skip over the administrative nature of some of the jobs.

Just having a problem with interests - how does one describe an interest in internet parenting forums....?

[flowerybeanbag]

Something about networking, sharing experiences and expertise....?

I'm never a great believer in the importance of interests anyway tbh. Some people have the point of view that if they put/see rock-climbing or whatever on a cv, that makes them a more interesting 'rounded' person.

Unless your interests are relevant to the job, actively give you skills/experiences that will make a difference, I'd leave them off. There is a huge danger in shortlisting someone because you think their hobbies sound interesting/exciting. What about the disabled person who is just as qualified for the job, but either doesn't put interests or has less dynamic ones? If the rock climber is shortlisted the employer is vulnerable to a discrimination claim (as well as losing a good candidate). Similarly the single mother with 4 kids and no time or money for rock climbing. You see my point!

[marina]

peer mentoring

[SueW]

I don't have v exciting interests actually so all too happy not to have to find interesting ways of describing women's netball, reading, knitting funky socks, organising fundraising and social events for school parents' assoc and gassing on mumsnet!

The application form for my replacement in my last job did have a space for interests and the comments made as a result of what was put there were a bit e.g. if sedentary pastimes 'she'll be overweight then'

[marina]

better put extreme knitting in that case
I wonder if I am the only shortlister who resists making these dubious value judgments about people's hobbies and interests
I tend to focus on stuff like ticking the Essentials boxes and seeing if I can read their handwriting, although how they spell liaison is always of interest

[flowerybeanbag]

I heart marina and her shortlisting techniques, radically focusing on the essential criteria rather than speculation about the weight of the candidate....