CAT tests

[Mel338a]

Hi,

My daughters primary school recently CAT tested her (Year 3), a bit off the cuff on the advice of a visitor from another school after being shown her work. So no warning this was coming! Her results are Quantitative and Non-Verbal 141, Verbal 138 and Spatial 132.

From some reading I know these are good scores but this isn't a boast. School are seemingly pretty stuck with where to go with her, and recommending we look at other options. She doesn't struggle socially, has lots of friends, and a wide range of extra curriculars, including learning a musical instrument and a second language, so school are saying they don't have a weakness that they can focus their efforts on which would be their usual method of dealing with this.

Does anyone have any advice on what we should be looking for, there appears to be increasing awareness from DD that she is intelligent, and some comments around a lack of stretch, and being given things like errands to do to fill time when work is completed.

We're looking at private schools, but I am aware that there is good and bad in the private sector too. School have done an amazing job so far, but this is the G&T lead telling us to look at other options, as they are struggling.

[Lara53]

Call up/ arrange to visit and meet with local private schools and ask to speak to the Gifted and Talented coordinator - ask them how they support/ nurture/ stretch gifted pupils.

[FlumePlume]

I’m surprised the school is suggesting moving her if she’s happy socially and behaving well.

I haven’t had CAT scores done, but my dd got into an indy for which I’m told they need to score at least 135 across the board. We just accepted primary school wouldn’t stretch her and gave her lots of extra-curricular stuff (music, mostly, as that was something she could do at her own pace) to do, taking advantage of the lack of homework and commuting time.

I don’t see any need to push forward on the academic stuff if the child is happy at school - if they aren’t, that’s a different issue. And quite hard to deal with if the school doesn’t want to do so. But I do think there is value in a child learning to work at something - if academic stuff comes easily, that learning to work hard, fail and try again needs to come from outside school.

[extrastrongmints]

141 is the test ceiling and equates to 99.7th percentile (top 0.3%) or an incidence of 1 in 300. If a child has scored at the ceiling for 2 out of 4 areas and near the ceiling for the other two, then the true ability remains unknown - all that can be said is that it is above the ceiling of the test. Low ceilings around 140 are typical of group-administered assessments.
To quantify the true ability you would need to arrange a 1:1 assessment with an ed psych or other qualified tester - the tests used in 1:1 evaluations typically extend to 160. You could either request the school to arrange an ed psych evaluation through the LEA or privately.

Your daughter is likely to be highly gifted and would benefit from some of the many forms of academic acceleration. You might find the this series of articles informative.

There are no schools in the UK that require scores of 135 or equivalent ability.

[FlumePlume]

extrastrongmints My source for the CAT score information was a post on this thread:

This DD is my third one going through the process and mine were all in a non-selective prep. None of them were tutored whatsoever on top of that though, because they got so much homework anyway, I think it would have been counterproductive and I didn’t want to confuse them with alternative methods, etc. The head has a scheduled meeting with all parents in Year 5 and will not sign off references for schools that he feels the pupil will not get into. They have no qualms telling you if there is no chance, but they DH suggest you do one or two that are a stretch, as long as you have some more solid options too. They track the CAT scores all the way from reception as a basic guideline. The head showed me the stats - for SPGS or KCS you need to be averaging 135; LU and LEH 132; PHS about 125 and so on. It’s much harder for boys than girls in the Putney /Wimbledon area because there are far fewer options at 11 plus - no “High School” options for instance.

[Mel338a]

Thanks all, thank you extrastrong for the bedtime reading!

I think our fear is that by the time she is unhappy its too late, she'll have had years of not being stretched, and will have switched off. Its far harder to get back on track then.

I don't think any of the independents around us, South Wales, are anywhere near as academic as some of the schools mentioned above. But they all seem to offer more extra-curricular activities that the current school does. So we've booked into tour a few, as neither of us have stepped foot in a private school before so we just don't know what it would even feel like.

[FlumePlume]

OP I’d be wary of moving her to a private school that isn’t substantially more academic than her current state school. It would just use money in fees that you could otherwise spend on extra-curricular things that would allow her to be stretched. IME private schools are very good at selling themselves - it’s surprisingly easy to be wowed by amazing facilities and charming children!

Music, for example, she could do a couple of instruments, a choir and work up to her Grade 5 theory (which is properly hard). She could try out a local chess club, and work up to playing in tournaments. A decent local drama group (ie not Stagecoach, I’m thinking of something like the one we have locally that does an abridged Shakespeare play in a fortnight every summer with a group of kids aged 7-12) would be a different type of stretch - but is very good for skills like inference and emotional intelligence. Maybe a robotics or coding club, if you have one nearby. There are quite a lot of online courses, as well, that she could have a go at - my dd did an online philosophy discussion for kids which she liked. My dd is currently teaching herself a language with Duolingo, that’s another option.

[extrastrongmints]

@FlumePlume, another thread paints a different picture:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/3074292-CATs-score-in-top-schools
The consensus there was that 125+ (= top 5%) was perfectly sufficient to have a good chance at the most selective London schools, and a kid could dip well below that in some areas if they had a compensating strength in another area.
The numbers on entry and on exit also don't support a figure of 135 (= top 1%). On entry, there are far more "elite" private school places available than there are kids in the top 1%. On exit, most of the kids in these schools don't get into oxbridge and don't get straight A* grades. If the kids really were all top 1% on entry, this would imply that the majority subsequently underachieve relative to that ability. That discrepancy disappears if one accepts that only a minority of the kids were in the top 1% to start with.

[xiaoabei]

Hi, I have the same confusion. Can you tell me what did you do finally? My daughter who is in year 4 got 4 141 scores and I don't know how to do next.

[lifeover40]

@xiaoabei have a look at the website for Potential Plus UK www.potentialplusuk.org/